Radical Rotary Avantgard

I have a HKS TO4E single turbo with a street port and that is what I wanted. Simplicity, less heat and clean up the clutter under the hood(Rats nest). Again, I was not after big Dyno numbers but an upgrade with better tuning capabilities and slight increase in performance.
Now I am reading SOOOOOO much about the BNR set up that sounds to good to be true.

What is your opinion on the BNR vs. the Single set up?

Are the BNR going to kill the single conversions?

Do you think people will go for less expense and keep the complexity?

What does the future holds for the single turbo people?

Badog

You'll always have people running singles. I doubt less than 1% of the people running singles (happy or not) will swap to stock manifold twins. Even it they are upgraded "super duper secret sauce" twins.

I bet that about 5-10% due goto twins, but something like the HKS or the new Aspec unit.

The advantage to having a sub $2000 set of upgraded twins is that people now have more choices for their upgrade paths. It used to be that if you wanted to make 420-450RWHP (over a long period of time, not just once or twice or until you blew the turbos out) you had to go with a single. Now, that MAY be different.

Tony K.

laujesse

iTrader: (19)

I dont care what secret sauce you use on those twins. Unless they have a Titanium secondary exhaust housing and genie under the hood blowing the heat away and making all of the same actuator and vacume problems go away there is still ne substitue for the single. I wouldnt care if they dynoed 500hp that stock set has been and continues to be a design flaw from day one made to acomidate the Auto trannie version.

Not to nock thier efforts but if you want 400hp+ the relighable way will always be the single for fundamental not personal reasons.

black99

I sort of a agree. I think the upgraded twins that Bryan at BNR are producing seem to be great from what I've heard, alot better than other upgraded twins. But I still think you'll have a good amount of people going single turbo, as while a small single/upgraded twins might produce similar power a single turbo offers various little simplicity benifits that a set of upgraded twins seem to lack.

vosko

iTrader: (4)

i have a T78 i am EXTREMELY happy. low end power is nice. i have no complaints. excellent boost control. lower underhood temps. more power. what more can you ask for ?

artguy

Ill keep my low end with upgraded twins over the "wait" of a single any day of the week...design flaws or not...well except for some saturdays at the race track. the rest of the days Im darting around in traffic.


j

nocab72

I have no problems darting around in traffic with my GT35/40 setup, other than keeping the rear end planted on the road... I'm sure I don't have the 2k - 3k RPM low end you have, but when I'm darting, I wouldn't be in that RPM range anyways...

K

Wargasm

My T04S is as responsive as any of the twin turbo cars I've raced on the street. I don't putz around at 2500 rpm. My car cruises at around 3500-4000 which gives me very nice response.

I think that some off the new twins such as the BNRs show a lot of promise... but the reliability remains to be seen as well as heat issues. 400 rwhp generates heat... and the single setups leave a lot more room for airflow around the area which I like. The simplicity of the single setup is great too. I don't have any solenoids any longer

nocab72

I curse everytime I have to look @, work on a sequential setup... I would never go back to twins, unless they were GT28's from ASPEC.

I however, salute Bryan for he breakthrough progress on his twin setup, it fits a great nitch for those wanting 400ish rwhp but not feeling comfortable yanking everything out of their engine bay to do a single conversion...

K

vosko

iTrader: (4)

everyone who says lag is the devil has never been in a single turbo car or wants a way to justify not spending the money. when my stock turbos came off the car i decided they are not going back on

it also seems that all that low end power that twins give you just slows down since if whenever you punch it and get boost and torque instaneously that means lots and lots of wheelspin.....

twokrx7

iTrader: (1)

Lag has not been an issue with my single turbo or any that I have driven. I believe the most significant benefit of the BNR or other modified stock turbos is the increased probability of passing a visual emmisions inspection.

Bridgeported

It's not just the debate over [no lag, decent power] -vs- [some lag, tones of power].

You also have to remember, twins are more expensive, weigh more, more complicated, more failure prone (2 things to go wrong instead of one), etc.
It's not just the power and the lag issues.

The only time I would use twins if I was running a drag only car that a single as big as a T88 or whatever was too small to produce the power I wanted.

TYSON

I think you're talking about an entirely different level of twin turbos

It's great that BNR has managed to make so much power. But when I took my stock turbos off my car the exhaust inlet had at least a dozen cracks around the port. These can't (shouldn't?) be rebuilt. Therefore my cost would be a hell of a lot higher to go to these turbos, as I would have to buy new ones first. My car only has 50,000 miles, and I think these turbos were replaced once before I owned it. Durability will still be an issue, if BNR uses the stock housing.

Jason

iTrader: (5)

I think the BNR's are a new alternative for the people that were thinking about running a small single turbo.
My opinion is there are many advantages of a single turbo over a twin which have already been mentioned. We also dont know how reliable the BNR's are going to be over the long haul.
I am impressed with what Bryan has done

Congrats

Jason

Bridgeported

Yes, BNR is a great alternative instead of changing to a "smaller" sized single turbo upgrade. They did a great job and seems to be an impressive product.

rotorbrain

heres my deal. single turboness (yes, its a word now) opens a door to many more possibilities. i have a brand new to4e xs kit and have been thinking about how ill probably get whipped by a set of bnr's. . . thats almost discomforting, but there are more roads to explore with the custom single setup. the twins are stuck in that setup. its great for the sleeper. . . in fact its awesome for the sleeper.

i feel that a custom single setup is the "gateway drug" for power adders. it opens up a door to other greater things than the kit you might have at that time.

its also a really good look, ya know. nothing looks meaner than a honker single turbo staring at your competition. haha.

i have ridden in spoautos car and i must say that the bnr's are a very respectful setup. they turned me back around. i almost went back to a twin setup, but i finally got my to4e kit in and i had to change my mind (its hard to just give up something you already have!!!). i watched stephens car blast all around birmingham and i was amazed. the bnr set is great for someone wanting to stay with the stock look.

i say that the bnrs should now be the first step to a big single setup from now on. great performance at a non-seq setup. after that kit becomes old to you then you can move up to a bigboy single turbo.

my .02

paul

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

From what I understand, the emmission ***** will be patroling the entire state next year, and I don't want to deal with having to swap the twins back in.

I'm still debating if I should go BNRs, or to4s. And just dealing with it, when it does go state wide. On the other hand, if Rich's car makes 450ish rwhp, then I'm sold. CJ

Marcel Burkett

I think it al depends on the individual and what is their ultimate goal in POWER , for me there is no way a pair of upgraded twins would be able to replace my T70 on my half bridged 13B now ,and if I ever decide to change my set up , say 20B , I wouldnt have to change my turbo (already have a 1.32 housing) for that duty , and when the time comes for servicing / repairs it would be twice the expense and headache with twins.

FEARED7

Whats up everyone. In my opinion I love single turbo conversions. They are clean and can go from mild to wild. Less BS under the hood, great power and you have a lot invested. On the other hand you have the stock hybrids that are 100% bolt up, with no fabrication required. The Hybrids work for some but others may not like it apearing unmodified . Also when people need to pass inspections or emissions, they don't have to worry! I bought a 3rd gen just b/c of these twins. I have had single set ups on all my other cars, but this was the first time I have ever had anything catch me off guard! lol I bought a white 94 model with black interior, and I should get it here in 2 weeks or so. I will also be offering a Stock Moun liquid/air intercooler kit after the turbos slow down a little. Let me know if you guys have any qustions.

Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com

fdracer

how much for the liquid to air ic?

Poweraxel

yeah i think we should close this forum cause of these modified stock twins..personally im happy for any RX-7 doing well, stock twins or single.. if you think the stock manifold twins will be the rave in racing circles you are wrong.. Single turbo RX7's have there advantages and diadvantages at time but it all come down to correct turbo size and tuning... If you run a set of non- sequentials to a small sized single turbo you would get similar results.. you wont be seeing me putting a set of modified stock twins on my car and i highly doubt most people will be selling there single turbo setup for some modified non-sequential twins.. if you really thnk about it, whats the point of "modified non-sequential twins" the stock manifold is a massive restriction.. rip out the twin turbo assembly and put a PROPERLY sized single turbo and get the same results..
The main problem that i see is that people buy these huge single turbo assemblies thinking there gonna make big power and not feel lag,..so they start off with the wrong sized turbo thats not putting the #'s they thought.. people just need to start off with the properly sized single turbo to begin with and work there way up to big turbo if neede... plain and simple

but i do give much praise for BNR to try something new with the stock twins

Badog

And I would like to add that thanks are in order to Bryan for bringing a highly competitive product to market. The alternatives are M2 and Checkpoint. More choices means a better place for us to be. Those of us still running stock twins and looking for an upgrade.

artguy

if my car was in a state that allowed single turbos I might consider it...i did consider it. I was going to go with the rx6 when I found no way to pass emissions.

the only way to bet thru emissions when i lived in cali..if you owned a single...was to pay some jerk 200-300 bucks to break the law for you. If you get pulled over with it the car can be towed...and you will get fix it tickets that require all stock parts (including the airbox) to be replaced.

whoever said emissions *****...you were right.


some of us dont live in the luxury of the country roads...


regardless...every time i see a post about the gt35/40 I get a bit envious...upgraded twins or not.

hahah

and finally...to all those who say singles dont lag...whatever. we have all seen the dyno charts.


I am jealous of the simplicity and low heat though...not to mention spine crushing power up top!!!



j

680RWHP12A

single is the way to go!!! no if's and's or but's!!!!if you have the right combonation a single will have only minor turbo lag, wich i think is good(who wants to be on boost at 1,500 rpm's )thats a wast of gas!! when the single big boy hits boost WHAT A FEELIN!!!!

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

I for one would never go back to twins for many of the reasons posted here, BNR did a great job and gives people another choice but, just not for me,as poweraxel said it is how the turbo is sized that is important. I see 10lbs by 2800rpms that is more than quick enough for me and I will see over 500rwhp when the boost is turned up.I spin them now in the first three gears why would I need better lowend than that. As far as the EPA is concerned there are low mount singles offered by HKS , A-spec, and whatnot that allow you to retain the airpump.