Well Long story short i live in Arizona and im am attempting to finish my build that has been going on forever now. I have a s475 and im looking to make 600whp at 20-22 psi. The car currently setup for e85 (ID 1k primaries and 2k secondaries )but i recently moved and my closest station is now 1 hour away. So ive been considering going to 91oct with post turbo water only injection since i do not want to use methanol but im not sure if my power goals will be attainable with water only. SO here are my options. the cost is about the same so any input or personal experiences would be a great help

Keep my current injectors and buy a coolingmist water injection with a 800cc or 1150cc super atomizing injector.

or

Buy 2k primary injectors and not drive the car as much (1hr for gas is too far for me)

 

how come you dont want to ues meths?

 

Ease of attainability (i drive alot), cost, and simplicity (id rather just run to walmart buy distilled water and dump it in rather than ordering or making a 50/50 mix.. yup im lazy plus. Plus i live far from civilization).

 

Contact JZG, he also has S475, water only setup and his car apparently does produce over 620 HP at about 30 psi, trap speed proven.

You will need very strong ignition system and large quantity of water, 1150cc/min flow rate should work but timing will still have to be retarded from optimum value which will raise EGTs. Be absolutely sure, that system is able to deliver such quantities of fluid.

Which S475 do you have? T4 or T6 hotside? Remember that water is additional mass so components should be sized accordingly.

 

i have to be honest and say those numbers seem kind of low i know people making close to 700whp at 30psi. Then again this is a stock port motor without and e&j throttle body hahaha. (after doing some reading in his threads i saw he hit 590whp at 28psi.)My fuel system is setup for e85 so i have dual walbros to -8 feed, -6 split, and then a -6 return. Should be way more than enough. My motor is also ported.

EDIT im looking at t4 setup

 

I misread this. Yes Im aware of the higher volume. I'm trying to decide which size hotside to go with....

.90, 1.0, or 1.10

Since I'm only shooting for 20 psi I figured the .90 would be enough

 

Its all about combination. Ported engine with 4-barrel intake will produce very high peak power with relatively low boost. But then again, I haven´t seen such good numbers from T4 S475 which has 83.5 mm turbine wheel. Everyone with these kind of numbers seems to use T6 1.32 A/R housing and 96 mm turbine.

Fuel also plays large role, you would have to have very optimized water injected setup to produce comparable power per boost as with race fuels or alcohols. Unless you are willing to go all out with water flow rate, your timing advance and fuel settings will still be severely limited by pump gas which won't help in power production. All that fluid will call for strong ignition system, hence my curiosity about it.


Well, it could be enough, but I can assure you, that you won't produce 600whp at 20psi boost, not even remotely. Unless you like hyped up figures

If you really want to settle at such boost level and have a fast car, you would be better with something smaller, like Precision billet 6266 or Turblown's TD61 or TDX61.

 

Definitely agree with this comment I currently run a 475 T4 small turbine on a average size extend port in a drag car, made 660@32psi on dynojet with more boost car run 8.9@155mph(tremec tko not clutchless) In my opinion you are dreaming if you want 600 at low 20's. That is if you want real power figures. My cars on E85. Dont be so concerned chasing horsepower, just get the setup right and it will haul ***, I'm sure that's the main thing!

 

Sorry when I say small turbine I mean 83/74 and running 1.10 housing

Cheers Brad

 

Alright well I guess I need to clear up this. I'm actually going to be running a Borg s467 but most people are not familiar with that turbo. It's similar in size to a gt4094 but it moves 93lbs per minute. I'm only looking to run 20lbs for the street and wanted to see if anybody had done something similar. The only turbo similar is s475 which moves around 105 lbs per min. Sorry for the confusion I just was trying to see if anyone was able to run s475 to 20lbs on water only. The 600 number was just a guess based on a friends Dyno.

 

Then the answer is yes, It can be done. Its all about combustion pressures - torque, and since you are going to limit yourself to 20 psi, you will have no problem with water only setup. It just won't produce much over 500 HP and it will have poor powerband for street use - I know, 67mm compressor is not considered as big in rotary community, but coupled with that 83mm turbine, it is big. This turbo was designed for class drag racing with top-end performance in mind.

It will work but even better it would work at higher boost levels. There is no reason to limit yourself to 20 pounds, just use right amount of water, fuel, and timing

Just remember, large turbo, low boost and stock tranny ---> slow car no matter peak power.

 

Not enough boost for the power you are looking for unless you are going to use a dyno that gives bullshit dyno figures. No offense to anybody else but i tune a lot of big boost wi cars and 600hp on 20psi aint going to happen with a s475.

You will need around 25-26psi and it will need to be pre turbo wi injectors, 800cc will be plenty, mixtures around 11.0 with 5-6 degrees of timing and it is a walk in the park. Use some good cdi ignition and must be good street port or properly done bridgeport and you will have no issues.

 

Surprisingly the turbine wheels of these turbos is not too far off as the gt4094 is a 78trim and the s467 isnt too far behind sitting at a 79trim. Pus the compressor wheel on the s467 is actually 3mm smaller at the exducers (largest partof the wheel). I believe the the borg will spool just like a gt4094 but make way more power. Ive seen a few gt4094s hit full boost around mid 4k rpm range.

If you could pm and discuss a proper water setup i would appreciate that! I know you sell one/ have acces to one based on what ive read in your "703whp" thread. Plus my turbo moves almost just as much as your gt4202. So a similar setup to yours would be perfect for me.

I do plan on pushing more than 20psi when i refresh the motor and dowel it but as of now its a tired motor (4years and being raced and 1 year of being daily driven all at 500+ whp with a t04r) but i may still shoot for 600whp.


Thanks for everybody's input so far

 

Carefull with these statements. Trim is just ratio between minor and major diameter of given wheel. Physically, S400SX-67mm has turbine comparable to GT42. (83mm/74mm for BW, 82mm/75mm for GT42).

Also, compressor of given inducer with bigger exducer has less "lag" (of course, to the point, when increase in inertia diminishes these gains) and higher efficiency at high boost levels, althought I'm not that sure on exducer diameter of this 67mm inducer wheel. Factory claims 91mm, I've seen measurement of 96mm.

Nevertheless, this turbo has very good wheel match and will perform nicely later on at higher boost levels

 

[QUOTE



If you could pm and discuss a proper water setup i would appreciate that! I know you sell one/ have acces to one based on what ive read in your "703whp" thread. Plus my turbo moves almost just as much as your gt4202. So a similar setup to yours would be perfect for me.




[/QUOTE]

Please share that info w/ me too...I'm goin wi

 

i actually dont sell the kit anymore as i dont have time to put it together but Dudesmanrx7 on here sells the kit for a very good price.

Just tell him how much hp your shooting for and hell size the jet to suit

for your power level i would do 7-800cc 600cc at the minimum.

 

www.wannaspeed.com

I purchased one of Brent's kits. He is a solid dude, and worked with my special needs. I purchased his nozzle and solenoid only. I chose a custom aluminum tank, AN fittings & teflon braided line. I'm not a fan of pushlocks and plastics.

 

Do you all recommend this kit for people running 2 nozzles because i would like to run pre turbo and post turbo nozzles. I live in Arizona so intake temps are somewhat important here. Or would a high pressure electric pump work better for my needs. i would like to do 800cc pre turbo 300cc post turbo

I still have E85 as an option too so if anybody has an opinion on that topic please post.

 

"balljoint" is running dual nozzels. He has 2 of brent's kits pre-turbo
(stock twins) and working perfect.

 

Personally, I would stick with preturbo and run 50/50. That will keep fueling more even and also reduce intake temps more.

Balljoint is running dual nozzles on BNR twins. Making around 452whp at 20psi if I remember correctly. From what I have seen, the current BNR stage 3 record holder.

The atomizer style nozzled used by Rice Racing and Brent are used for pre-turbo. I have yet to see a post turbo mounting configuration. Much of this has to do with the way the nozzle is made. The fluid cap screws onto the body. To me, it would be hard to get things to seal in the piping. The conventional small nozzles simply thread into a fitting. The atomizers are a bit larger in size.