Best AFR for people using C16?
02-02-06, 01:10 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by crispeed
Some tune for power and some for reliability. Then there are dyno queens and track queens.
Most of the high horsepower rotaries that I've tuned is not worth the extra 20 whp for tuning them lean in my opinion, especialy if it's a street application and if power is going to be sustained for any length of time.
Power cannot be detremined only by A/F measurement. You got to have a right balance of A/F, Ign. timing and Egt's just to name a few. Just for example let's say you tune to 12.0 A/F on the dyno and made good power with safe egt's. Now you go out on the street and hold that sucker in high gear for any length of time and that same 12.0 A/f is resulting in turbine melting, apex seal growing, warping, breaking and spring flattenning egt's what will you do then? Sacrifice reliabilty for a little power.
Most of the high horsepower rotaries that I've tuned is not worth the extra 20 whp for tuning them lean in my opinion, especialy if it's a street application and if power is going to be sustained for any length of time.
Power cannot be detremined only by A/F measurement. You got to have a right balance of A/F, Ign. timing and Egt's just to name a few. Just for example let's say you tune to 12.0 A/F on the dyno and made good power with safe egt's. Now you go out on the street and hold that sucker in high gear for any length of time and that same 12.0 A/f is resulting in turbine melting, apex seal growing, warping, breaking and spring flattenning egt's what will you do then? Sacrifice reliabilty for a little power.
02-02-06, 04:49 PM
#27
Originally Posted by LUPE
Some of us are track queens and don't mind rebuilding/freshening up our motors every season
02-02-06, 04:57 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by crispeed
After every season is not a track queen. After every race meet is a track queen. After every run is a track king!
02-02-06, 06:53 PM
#29
Originally Posted by AnthonyNYC
What would you say was "safe" or what would you recommend for those boost levels I noted.
It's just that I see some rotaries make a million passes on the dyno on high boost and never blow up because they are running a lot richer on top.
Anthony
It's just that I see some rotaries make a million passes on the dyno on high boost and never blow up because they are running a lot richer on top.
Anthony
So if you can make 500hp with afr of 10.5 and only 525hp with 11.5 afr's you can't just base it on hp...
Let's say that when the afr is 10.5 it takes 8 seconds to make the pull.
Now at 11.5 afr the car only needs 6 seconds to make the same pull.
Which do you think would be faster down the track?
02-02-06, 07:06 PM
#30
I just got off an engine dyno a few minutes ago and was tuning a 1200HP BBC for a cigeratte boat. This boat will alway run straight VP112 with 2-1200hp BB motors. These guys run wide open for extended periods of time. And get up to some serious speeds to(upwards of 170mph) Tuning on the water is very exciting!
Max power with VP112 was made at around 12.8 afr.
They will be detuned to about 12.0 afr for use in the boat.
I know its not a rotary engine but these guys really abuse the **** out of their motors and they still survive. What we do going down a 1/4 mile strip can't compare to the amount of abuse a marine engine goes thru..
The main thing that keeps them together or any forced induction motor is getting a handle on heat. Make sure air temps don't get too hot.
Max power with VP112 was made at around 12.8 afr.
They will be detuned to about 12.0 afr for use in the boat.
I know its not a rotary engine but these guys really abuse the **** out of their motors and they still survive. What we do going down a 1/4 mile strip can't compare to the amount of abuse a marine engine goes thru..
The main thing that keeps them together or any forced induction motor is getting a handle on heat. Make sure air temps don't get too hot.
02-02-06, 07:55 PM
#31
Originally Posted by enzo250
I just got off an engine dyno a few minutes ago and was tuning a 1200HP BBC for a cigeratte boat. This boat will alway run straight VP112 with 2-1200hp BB motors. These guys run wide open for extended periods of time. And get up to some serious speeds to(upwards of 170mph) Tuning on the water is very exciting!
Max power with VP112 was made at around 12.8 afr.
They will be detuned to about 12.0 afr for use in the boat.
I know its not a rotary engine but these guys really abuse the **** out of their motors and they still survive. What we do going down a 1/4 mile strip can't compare to the amount of abuse a marine engine goes thru..
The main thing that keeps them together or any forced induction motor is getting a handle on heat. Make sure air temps don't get too hot.
Max power with VP112 was made at around 12.8 afr.
They will be detuned to about 12.0 afr for use in the boat.
I know its not a rotary engine but these guys really abuse the **** out of their motors and they still survive. What we do going down a 1/4 mile strip can't compare to the amount of abuse a marine engine goes thru..
The main thing that keeps them together or any forced induction motor is getting a handle on heat. Make sure air temps don't get too hot.
Ensil
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02-03-06, 07:01 PM
#34
Rotary Enthusiast
enzo 250,
BBCs are probably the toughest engine ever made
and marine units have the biggest cooling, and intercooler ever made , called OCEAN.
I love rotarys, but they ARE fragile and sensitive,
HOW about 25lbs. boost for 15 minutes on the dyno.
BBCs are probably the toughest engine ever made
and marine units have the biggest cooling, and intercooler ever made , called OCEAN.
I love rotarys, but they ARE fragile and sensitive,
HOW about 25lbs. boost for 15 minutes on the dyno.
02-04-06, 06:52 AM
#36
Originally Posted by ronbros3
enzo 250,
BBCs are probably the toughest engine ever made
and marine units have the biggest cooling, and intercooler ever made , called OCEAN.
I love rotarys, but they ARE fragile and sensitive,
HOW about 25lbs. boost for 15 minutes on the dyno.
BBCs are probably the toughest engine ever made
and marine units have the biggest cooling, and intercooler ever made , called OCEAN.
I love rotarys, but they ARE fragile and sensitive,
HOW about 25lbs. boost for 15 minutes on the dyno.
Yeah i agree that rotary's are more fragile and sensitive.
when setup correctly they'll be able to survive also.
Rohan Ambrose has a 3 rotor turbo running about 25~28lbs for probably longer then 15 minutes on his raceboat.
02-04-06, 07:36 AM
#37
Stay tuned...
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Originally Posted by enzo250
Anthony your not going to run over 30psi with your car on the street so im assuming those boost levels are for the track. You'll be plently safe with 11.5 a/f on C16. Not only do you gain hp from correct a/f ratio's but you will also gain acceleration.
So if you can make 500hp with afr of 10.5 and only 525hp with 11.5 afr's you can't just base it on hp...
Let's say that when the afr is 10.5 it takes 8 seconds to make the pull.
Now at 11.5 afr the car only needs 6 seconds to make the same pull.
Which do you think would be faster down the track?
So if you can make 500hp with afr of 10.5 and only 525hp with 11.5 afr's you can't just base it on hp...
Let's say that when the afr is 10.5 it takes 8 seconds to make the pull.
Now at 11.5 afr the car only needs 6 seconds to make the same pull.
Which do you think would be faster down the track?
I'm actually beginning to feel it's much better to tune on the street with a good wide band in the car and then get on the dyno for those high speed 4th gear pulls to make sure everything is safe. I'm also beginning to feel the pressure of tuning your own car, it's so much easier to drop it in the hands of a competent tuner and call it a day.
I think to make the HP on the dyno is very very easy but to get the car down the track with no breaking up or rich/lean spots, good acceleration and reliably is where a good tuner comes in.
Thanks for the advice.
Anthony
Last edited by AnthonyNYC; 02-04-06 at 07:40 AM.
02-04-06, 02:01 PM
#39
Originally Posted by rx7diva
Maybe you just need to try a different dyno or different test.
Inertia dynos can cause the problems your experiencing anthony...
You can have a car tuned on one and the minute you try driving it on the street or track the map is completely different. This is why most people don't like tuning on them, except for wot pulls.
A steady state dyno is what you need. Something like a dyno dynamics, dynapak, etc...
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