Anyone in California running an EFR turbo on pump gas
08-14-19, 12:20 PM
#1
Ghost Ride the Whip
Thread Starter
Anyone in California running an EFR turbo on pump gas
Curious to see how much power an EFR turbo can make on 91 octane at the pump. Please post your setup and boost levels...
08-14-19, 12:54 PM
#2
Dig through Willow's IG who works at Lucky7Racing. They have installed and tuned at least 15 of our EFR kits;
http://www.instagram.com/lucky7willow/?hl=en
http://www.instagram.com/lucky7willow/?hl=en
08-14-19, 07:11 PM
#3
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
You're going to be close to 450whp on pump 91 octane with the largest two EFRs. A little more with water/meth.
08-15-19, 03:33 PM
#4
Ghost Ride the Whip
Thread Starter
08-15-19, 03:38 PM
#5
Generally ID1050X x 4 ( primary and secondaries) is enough fuel for pump gas only( 430rwhp range at 4 bar base fuel pressure).
What has been popular for ages is also stock primaries and Id2000 secondaries( clears another 130rwhp over the above).
The most I have made( well wanted to push) on pump 91 only Cali is 440rwhp. I have made 666 rwhp on pump only, but that was a 20B.
What has been popular for ages is also stock primaries and Id2000 secondaries( clears another 130rwhp over the above).
The most I have made( well wanted to push) on pump 91 only Cali is 440rwhp. I have made 666 rwhp on pump only, but that was a 20B.
08-15-19, 03:56 PM
#6
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
This is all going to be dependent on the TURBO itself. Power Rating is what you should be concerned about. On a large EFR, I would say that 15-16psi is just fine on pump gas.
Talk to Jon who's local to us. Tuned his car last night on his Journal Bearing Precision 6766.
A really nice combination is 91 Octane + Water/Meth. I need to see what injector that meth system is on, but the car feels great and is VERY safe now compared to the previous tuner who simply didn't know what he was doing.
Fuel Systems are easy to calculate. Contact me over Facebook and I'll go over the math with you. ID1300x Primary + ID1700x Secondary is really nice with good headroom for more. ID1700x on all four is better and will still idle perfectly. You can get away with a single Walbro 450 (F900000274) making up to about 500whp. After that it's time for Dual Bosch 044s.
Talk to Jon who's local to us. Tuned his car last night on his Journal Bearing Precision 6766.
A really nice combination is 91 Octane + Water/Meth. I need to see what injector that meth system is on, but the car feels great and is VERY safe now compared to the previous tuner who simply didn't know what he was doing.
Fuel Systems are easy to calculate. Contact me over Facebook and I'll go over the math with you. ID1300x Primary + ID1700x Secondary is really nice with good headroom for more. ID1700x on all four is better and will still idle perfectly. You can get away with a single Walbro 450 (F900000274) making up to about 500whp. After that it's time for Dual Bosch 044s.
Last edited by RGHTBrainDesign; 08-15-19 at 04:03 PM.
08-18-19, 09:08 AM
#7
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
"how much power an EFR turbo can make on 91 octane at the pump. Please post your setup and boost levels"
"How much boost is that with though and what type of fuel setup?"
"Apex'i RX6 Single"
wow, a blast from the past... an RX6. a jewel of a turbo unfortunately not fit for a rotary as the turbine wheel s a tiny 4.3 average sq inches. there are four compressor sizes ranging from 5.29 to 6.3 but they are all, of course, limited by the tiny driving wheel which also produces a ton of backpressure and high EGTs.
as to your questions re the EFR... as you know the EFR is a line of turbos that offer rotary power levels over a broad range. if we assume you are asking about the 8374, which is most common, depending on whether you use the end of the efficiency plots or the rpm plots the turbo can make between 550/73 pounds per minute and 585/78 PPM. at 30 psi. this is max air and assumes everything is optimized on your setup and tune.
of course one of the power discounts is 91 octane. BTUs and Octane are often confused. a gallon of gasoline, whether 91 or 93 Octane has approx 116,090 BTUs which is latent energy. there is a modest difference in BTUs due to differing additives used to raise the Octane in 93.
the big difference in power output of course is the higher Octane in 93 allows for a higher boost and therefore significantly higher power.
depending on how you fixture your setup you are not necessarily constrained by 91 Octane. if you are in a 91 Octane situation and you want to get everything out of the turbo all you need to do is run 100% methanol AI.
if you are happy in the 400+ area water or water meth will do the job. (do not go near an 8374 without some form of AI)
as to at what boost level will you see 400/450 it depends greatly on your setup. 425 rw rotary hp requires 57 pounds per minute. depending on the overall efficiency of your setup/tune this can happen as low as about 15 psi.
as to fuel, looking at it conservatively, 450 rotary rwhp requires 5521 CC per minute of Gross injector, 550 6381.
i recommend the same pump as RightBrain. since it will output 5678 CC/Min at 30 PSI hardwired at 13.5 V it is more than sufficient as NET fuel required for 450 is 3552 CC and at 550 is 4341. since the pump makes 5678 CC/Min against 30 psi boost and only 4736 (Net) is needed for 600 it pretty much checks all the boxes. ( if you are running E85 and need lots more fuel i still recommend the single pump along w a Kenne Bell Boost A Pump that adds 50% more output only in boost).
exec summary is... 8374, 91 octane, AI water meth about 500 CC, hardwired 90000274 a good tune and system and you will be all smiles
"How much boost is that with though and what type of fuel setup?"
"Apex'i RX6 Single"
wow, a blast from the past... an RX6. a jewel of a turbo unfortunately not fit for a rotary as the turbine wheel s a tiny 4.3 average sq inches. there are four compressor sizes ranging from 5.29 to 6.3 but they are all, of course, limited by the tiny driving wheel which also produces a ton of backpressure and high EGTs.
as to your questions re the EFR... as you know the EFR is a line of turbos that offer rotary power levels over a broad range. if we assume you are asking about the 8374, which is most common, depending on whether you use the end of the efficiency plots or the rpm plots the turbo can make between 550/73 pounds per minute and 585/78 PPM. at 30 psi. this is max air and assumes everything is optimized on your setup and tune.
of course one of the power discounts is 91 octane. BTUs and Octane are often confused. a gallon of gasoline, whether 91 or 93 Octane has approx 116,090 BTUs which is latent energy. there is a modest difference in BTUs due to differing additives used to raise the Octane in 93.
the big difference in power output of course is the higher Octane in 93 allows for a higher boost and therefore significantly higher power.
depending on how you fixture your setup you are not necessarily constrained by 91 Octane. if you are in a 91 Octane situation and you want to get everything out of the turbo all you need to do is run 100% methanol AI.
if you are happy in the 400+ area water or water meth will do the job. (do not go near an 8374 without some form of AI)
as to at what boost level will you see 400/450 it depends greatly on your setup. 425 rw rotary hp requires 57 pounds per minute. depending on the overall efficiency of your setup/tune this can happen as low as about 15 psi.
as to fuel, looking at it conservatively, 450 rotary rwhp requires 5521 CC per minute of Gross injector, 550 6381.
i recommend the same pump as RightBrain. since it will output 5678 CC/Min at 30 PSI hardwired at 13.5 V it is more than sufficient as NET fuel required for 450 is 3552 CC and at 550 is 4341. since the pump makes 5678 CC/Min against 30 psi boost and only 4736 (Net) is needed for 600 it pretty much checks all the boxes. ( if you are running E85 and need lots more fuel i still recommend the single pump along w a Kenne Bell Boost A Pump that adds 50% more output only in boost).
exec summary is... 8374, 91 octane, AI water meth about 500 CC, hardwired 90000274 a good tune and system and you will be all smiles
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 08-18-19 at 09:19 AM.
Trending Topics
08-27-19, 06:41 PM
#9
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Let me know if you need any help.
08-27-19, 07:20 PM
#10
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
What works very well and what I've tuned a few cars around here on is the very simple AEM Water/Meth kits with 500cc (Medium) Fogger setup Post-IC. Really, it should be integrated into the ECU for proper safety and control, but their standalone controller is simple enough to just place around the car if you're feeling lazy. At pump gas power levels and 500cc/min of water/meth juice, you can handle about 17-18psi of boost on an EFR 8374. Porting will shape your power curve. Not a lot of work to get another 40-75whp safely. 
08-28-19, 08:55 AM
#11
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
"What works very well and what I've tuned a few cars around here on is the very simple AEM Water/Meth kits with 500cc (Medium) Fogger setup Post-IC. Really, it should be integrated into the ECU for proper safety and control, but their standalone controller is simple enough to just place around the car if you're feeling lazy. At pump gas power levels and 500cc/min of water/meth juice, you can handle about 17-18psi of boost on an EFR 8374. Porting will shape your power curve. Not a lot of work to get another 40-75whp safely. "
yes.
glad you mentioned AI as it is ESSENTIAL.
"yes.
glad you mentioned AI as it is ESSENTIAL.
08-28-19, 01:45 PM
#12
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
"What works very well and what I've tuned a few cars around here on is the very simple AEM Water/Meth kits with 500cc (Medium) Fogger setup Post-IC. Really, it should be integrated into the ECU for proper safety and control, but their standalone controller is simple enough to just place around the car if you're feeling lazy. At pump gas power levels and 500cc/min of water/meth juice, you can handle about 17-18psi of boost on an EFR 8374. Porting will shape your power curve. Not a lot of work to get another 40-75whp safely. "
yes.
glad you mentioned AI as it is ESSENTIAL.
"yes.
glad you mentioned AI as it is ESSENTIAL.
09-24-19, 01:37 PM
#14
Ghost Ride the Whip
Thread Starter
"how much power an EFR turbo can make on 91 octane at the pump. Please post your setup and boost levels"
"How much boost is that with though and what type of fuel setup?"
"Apex'i RX6 Single"
wow, a blast from the past... an RX6. a jewel of a turbo unfortunately not fit for a rotary as the turbine wheel s a tiny 4.3 average sq inches. there are four compressor sizes ranging from 5.29 to 6.3 but they are all, of course, limited by the tiny driving wheel which also produces a ton of backpressure and high EGTs.
as to your questions re the EFR... as you know the EFR is a line of turbos that offer rotary power levels over a broad range. if we assume you are asking about the 8374, which is most common, depending on whether you use the end of the efficiency plots or the rpm plots the turbo can make between 550/73 pounds per minute and 585/78 PPM. at 30 psi. this is max air and assumes everything is optimized on your setup and tune.
of course one of the power discounts is 91 octane. BTUs and Octane are often confused. a gallon of gasoline, whether 91 or 93 Octane has approx 116,090 BTUs which is latent energy. there is a modest difference in BTUs due to differing additives used to raise the Octane in 93.
the big difference in power output of course is the higher Octane in 93 allows for a higher boost and therefore significantly higher power.
depending on how you fixture your setup you are not necessarily constrained by 91 Octane. if you are in a 91 Octane situation and you want to get everything out of the turbo all you need to do is run 100% methanol AI.
if you are happy in the 400+ area water or water meth will do the job. (do not go near an 8374 without some form of AI)
as to at what boost level will you see 400/450 it depends greatly on your setup. 425 rw rotary hp requires 57 pounds per minute. depending on the overall efficiency of your setup/tune this can happen as low as about 15 psi.
as to fuel, looking at it conservatively, 450 rotary rwhp requires 5521 CC per minute of Gross injector, 550 6381.
i recommend the same pump as RightBrain. since it will output 5678 CC/Min at 30 PSI hardwired at 13.5 V it is more than sufficient as NET fuel required for 450 is 3552 CC and at 550 is 4341. since the pump makes 5678 CC/Min against 30 psi boost and only 4736 (Net) is needed for 600 it pretty much checks all the boxes. ( if you are running E85 and need lots more fuel i still recommend the single pump along w a Kenne Bell Boost A Pump that adds 50% more output only in boost).
exec summary is... 8374, 91 octane, AI water meth about 500 CC, hardwired 90000274 a good tune and system and you will be all smiles
"How much boost is that with though and what type of fuel setup?"
"Apex'i RX6 Single"
wow, a blast from the past... an RX6. a jewel of a turbo unfortunately not fit for a rotary as the turbine wheel s a tiny 4.3 average sq inches. there are four compressor sizes ranging from 5.29 to 6.3 but they are all, of course, limited by the tiny driving wheel which also produces a ton of backpressure and high EGTs.
as to your questions re the EFR... as you know the EFR is a line of turbos that offer rotary power levels over a broad range. if we assume you are asking about the 8374, which is most common, depending on whether you use the end of the efficiency plots or the rpm plots the turbo can make between 550/73 pounds per minute and 585/78 PPM. at 30 psi. this is max air and assumes everything is optimized on your setup and tune.
of course one of the power discounts is 91 octane. BTUs and Octane are often confused. a gallon of gasoline, whether 91 or 93 Octane has approx 116,090 BTUs which is latent energy. there is a modest difference in BTUs due to differing additives used to raise the Octane in 93.
the big difference in power output of course is the higher Octane in 93 allows for a higher boost and therefore significantly higher power.
depending on how you fixture your setup you are not necessarily constrained by 91 Octane. if you are in a 91 Octane situation and you want to get everything out of the turbo all you need to do is run 100% methanol AI.
if you are happy in the 400+ area water or water meth will do the job. (do not go near an 8374 without some form of AI)
as to at what boost level will you see 400/450 it depends greatly on your setup. 425 rw rotary hp requires 57 pounds per minute. depending on the overall efficiency of your setup/tune this can happen as low as about 15 psi.
as to fuel, looking at it conservatively, 450 rotary rwhp requires 5521 CC per minute of Gross injector, 550 6381.
i recommend the same pump as RightBrain. since it will output 5678 CC/Min at 30 PSI hardwired at 13.5 V it is more than sufficient as NET fuel required for 450 is 3552 CC and at 550 is 4341. since the pump makes 5678 CC/Min against 30 psi boost and only 4736 (Net) is needed for 600 it pretty much checks all the boxes. ( if you are running E85 and need lots more fuel i still recommend the single pump along w a Kenne Bell Boost A Pump that adds 50% more output only in boost).
exec summary is... 8374, 91 octane, AI water meth about 500 CC, hardwired 90000274 a good tune and system and you will be all smiles
I've been out of the game for a long time and haven't really driven my car all that much over the last 10 years or so (life has a way of catching up to you like that) but have recently pulled the covers off and want to start tampering with it again.
If I were to start all over today and "only" wanted to make about 350-400rwhp on 91 octane (because I live in California and have shitty gas), what type of setup would you guys recommend? Asking the question because my turbo has about 40k miles on it and am thinking of doing a different route next time i do a rebuild on the motor.
09-24-19, 04:14 PM
#15
I always find it hilarious how people completely puke all over California's gas seeing as we now are in the age of readily accessible and configurable modern EFI systems and auxiliary injection. Want a little extra knock prevention/a safety blanket? Use water. Want a lot of extra knock prevention/the ability to run high(er) boost? Add methanol and tune to suit.
A knock index differential of just over 2% is not the end of the world with modern fuel, ignition, and aux injection controls. Now if we start comparing 91 to race and avgas and true E85 then sure, our gas sucks :P
A knock index differential of just over 2% is not the end of the world with modern fuel, ignition, and aux injection controls. Now if we start comparing 91 to race and avgas and true E85 then sure, our gas sucks :P
Last edited by dguy; 09-24-19 at 04:17 PM.
02-01-20, 05:32 PM
#16
Did you ever get this project going?
Thanks Howard. Exec summary of my current setup is: apex'i rx6 single, power FC, FMIC, ported motor, stock primary but 1300 cc secondary injectors, tuned by XS Engineering back in 2004. My car made 375rwhp at 1 kg of boost and 350 rwhp at 0.8 kg on 91 octane.
I've been out of the game for a long time and haven't really driven my car all that much over the last 10 years or so (life has a way of catching up to you like that) but have recently pulled the covers off and want to start tampering with it again.
If I were to start all over today and "only" wanted to make about 350-400rwhp on 91 octane (because I live in California and have shitty gas), what type of setup would you guys recommend? Asking the question because my turbo has about 40k miles on it and am thinking of doing a different route next time i do a rebuild on the motor.
I've been out of the game for a long time and haven't really driven my car all that much over the last 10 years or so (life has a way of catching up to you like that) but have recently pulled the covers off and want to start tampering with it again.
If I were to start all over today and "only" wanted to make about 350-400rwhp on 91 octane (because I live in California and have shitty gas), what type of setup would you guys recommend? Asking the question because my turbo has about 40k miles on it and am thinking of doing a different route next time i do a rebuild on the motor.
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