oorx7

iTrader: (2)

www.cj-motorsports.com

IAN

iTrader: (3)

Would this be available for an fc?

13bmaniac

iTrader: (5)

i found a plce called jayracing that sells all parts reladed and needed to isntall a bosch 044 like the -6an male for the pumps etc i think i will route both pumps with 2 lines almost to the firewall and "Y" them up to a golan fuel filter and then one line will feed both rails. i think is the best and simplest way to do it.
correct me if im wrong.

thanks again

Nuvolari

iTrader: (4)

I pretty much have the same set up with the twin Supra FP internal set up PTP made. I have plenty of fuel to spare, I also have 850cc/ 1600cc injectors. With the FPR turned down all the way I still run 30psi at idle.

The one CJ makes looks better then the PTP one I have, but mine gets the job done. Mine is Y'ed also ...

oorx7

iTrader: (2)

I designed this fuel pump assembly to be run in a couple different ways.

I have been currently running it in an the most UNefficient way I could think of, for research sake. I am running duel Walboros T'ed inside the tank, using a single dash -6 feed outlet. Now I did not use a Y, I used an actual T fitting. I then just used a regulator plug and nut from a bulk head to plug the unused outlet. I use the stock hard lines for feed, return, evap and stock fuel filter (new). I also recommend the Painless Wiring fuel pump relay to power the pumps. I then run my Fire wall forward fuel system as designed. I have a Defi fuel pressure sensor mounted on the secondary rail, to monitor fuel pressure. I am running 1000cc/1600cc with the required aeromotive regulator. Now, I have been running this set up since last spring. I had it street tuned by BDC, to my cars full but safe potential. I am running a gt40 turbo and all supporting mods. I have put about 4000+ miles on this setup with out a single fuel related problem.


There are a few ways to run our pump assembly, as designed.

One way is to not run an evap, use two stock -6 hard lines for feed. Then Y them at the firewall to a single -8 and straight to the fuel rail that Y's to the secondary from the primary. Then use the stock -6 return.

Another way would be to Y them too a -8 right outside the pump assembly and run a single -8 to the fuel rail.

I do recommend a fuel filter of some sort. I would not rely on the sock that is on the pump to filter out all contaminants.

~Brandon

13bmaniac

iTrader: (5)

i will go with the follow route.

i will run 2 lines one for each pump from the tank to the firewall wit -6an fittings i will Y them to a GOLAR fuel filter THAT HAS -6AN CONECTIONS so it will be a perfect fit for the lines and the run a -6an or a -8an fuel line to the rail.
each pump will have his sockect as well.
im just waiting your reply to my email or a pm here when you talk to your body about the concern you guys have.

cheers
thanks again

to_slow

iTrader: (3)

I put that together with cj pump assembly.

Hope that helps

BNA_ELLIS

Glad I saw this thread I just went and order the CJ dual bosch setup.


rgds
Brian

IAN

iTrader: (3)

Does anybody know if the FD and FC share the same pump layout. IE can I use this for my 1988 MAzda rx7.

Thanks,
Ian

Mills

iTrader: (1)

Not unless they both use the same flange and have the same tank depth. That hard-line setup in the pic above won't fit but it may be possible w/out hardlines...I'd buy the dual setup in a heartbeat for my FC if someone proves it fits in the tank...

IAN

iTrader: (3)

Apparently I have been told the fd and the fc plate connecting to the tank is different. So it probable will not fit.

I guess you can use their dual universal bracket and make you own.

Ian

phunk

Just FYI we recently found out that hardpipe setup built by a member in the pics wont even fit in a FD. The pumps have to be raised up a lot more and the pumps get so close to the fittings that the you have to loop the hose around.

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

This is correct. I'm working on making one fit now. The kit CJ had been essentially didn't work with the Bosch pumps. When I get it worked out I'll post some pics.

overspooled

does the bosch 044 out flow the OEM supra turbo denso pump?
can you run it at 12-14v all the time, or does it need to be regulated?
what are the current requirements? I know the oem supra pumps will pull 20A or more...Thanks

RotaryBred

i was running twin walbros with the CJM setup for 2 weeks. one of the pumps was brand new, the other had about 2000 miles on it. i was running 2 -6AN lines up to a Y adapter just before the filter (which is in the engine bay). Then to a FPR into both rails. I've been talking to the tuner in my area who was going to tune my car this weekend and he told me that one pump always over powers the other and one always dies.

well today i was checking my fuel pressure because my engine was acting silly and it was reading 7 PSI!! The new pump killed the older one and was just spitting fuel backwards right back into the tank through the dead pump... i feel like i wasted my money on this setup. for now i've plugged the line from the other pump so my car is still drivable and i can keep a solid pressure under low boost. If you want to go with the CJM setup, then i do believe the first idea in this thread of running a pump to each rail was the best idea, as long as you have a pressure gauge for each rail mounted inside the car. Otherwise ditch the idea and go with a single inline pump.

another note, if one of the pumps does die, you won't pop the motor unless you are running high boost because the pressure drop is so great that your car will stall out if you give it WOT

sm0keyii

iTrader: (1)

I copied this from rx7.com: Are you running a high current external tank fuel pump or dual intank units? If so, this is the relay you need to ensure proper voltage gets to the pumps. The original wiring is designed to not exceed 30A of power. A full race fuel pump can easily push this limit, especially at full boost. This relay is rated at such a level that there is no way to exceed its rating. Keep in mind: This is a competition part that is only needed on dual pump or external pump applications

http://rx7.com/store/rx7/fuelpumprelay.html

phunk

this doesnt sound quite right... walbro pumps, at least every one i have used, have a check valve on the output nipple of them, so you you are not going to have one pump flow thru the other in reverse like that. Why your walbro had no check valve is a mystery. What part number pumps are you using? The check valve is to maintain system pressure when the car is off for faster engine starts.

anyways, one pump cannot "overpower", or "kill" the other as you speak. Whoever told you that isnt thinking very hard. it doesnt work like that. its not a tug-o-war with fuel, there is a fuel pressure regulator. The fuel pressure regulator is maintaining a steady pressure in the system... that is the resistence each pump is pumping against. 2,3,4,5,6... it doesnt matter how many pumps there are as long as your regulator keeps the pressure the same its all in the same.

a bad pump will have its crummy output, if it has any at all. If it is poor enough that it cannot overcome the pressure already in the fuel system as provided by the other pump, it SHOULD do nothing and close its check valve. Once again, not sure why yours had a defective or missing check valve.

i wouldnt worry about it much, you are not the first person to have a walbro go bad. replace your bad walbro and enjoy your car.

There is more than likely an install issue with your setup, such as too low of pump mounting restricting the inlet and starving the pump. Our its possible that the pumps were activated without being in fuel for a wiring test. Or you could have just run your tank too low. Either way, like I was saying, just replace your $100 walbro and have the install checked over by a qualified fuel system guy and you will be in good shape.

Walbros are not unreliable... they are just very sensitive and they will go bad if you dont treat them well. Do not starve them, ever, not once, not for a second. If you do, goodbye walbro.

Mills

iTrader: (1)

True dat. If I leave mine sit for a day I'll wear the battery out trying to get fuel to the motor. I starved my Walbro and must have burned it up. It completely loses pressure almost immediately after shutting it off so my check valve must be shot too. Once it starts it runs fine in vacuum but I'm afraid to boost with it. I'm going with the Nippondenso/Supra pump and a boost a pump--should at least be a little quieter than the Walbro now.

phunk

actually i have personally foudn that most aftermarket regulators do not hold the pressure after you shut off the engine anyway... my aeromotive lets the pressure seap out and within 30 min or so its all gone. i was just mentioning the check valve because it sounds wierd to me that his dead pump turned into a major pressure leak.

are you running two walbros right now or just a single one?

Mills

iTrader: (1)

Single with 5000 miles on it. Since running it dry once it's had a bad lean spot/hesitation when the secondaries come on plus the hard starting, I'm just guessing the two symptoms can be fixed w/a new pump.

You may be right about the regulator causing the pressure drop though, sometimes it knocks so loud it makes me wonder if it's gone bad. The pressure gauge on it always jumps immediately to base but I still have to key-cycle repeatedly and attempt to crank until enough fuel gets in and it fires.

phunk

ya that will do it!

we have sold literally hundreds, probably abotu 300 fuel systems for the 350z and we rarely hear of issues with the walbro, just a couple. but the 350z has a very very well designed factory surge can setup that prevents the pump from starving until extremely low tank levels. I have made 570+ rwhp pulls with the gas light on and not lost pressure and hurt the pump. so the walbros being unreliable is just hear-say in the 350z/G35 community because it hardly ever happens there.

However its contrasting here, because in the Rx7 community its considered a huge POS. The difference is that the RX7 has a terrible fuel tank/baffle/pump bracket layout, therefore its fuel control is sub-par. Its what gives the walbro a bad name in the RX7 world, and its probably a decent percentage of the reasons RX7s have a bad rep for blowing their engines when it was just fuel starvation.

a rx7 owner needs to be aware of this issue, and always run the tank at good levels when being hard on the car in corners and acceleration. the mini plastic "surge box" in the FD rx7 fuel tank is a POS because it method of trapping fuel in is hardly effective, it probably does a better job at blocking fuel from getting in than it does at keeping the fuel from escaping.

for our 350z twin pump assembly, we followed the lead of the OEM assembly and built an intank surge can with fill siphons integrated into the dual pump hanger. the result has been OEM quality fuel control in the 350z tank which has essentially no baffles. the same type of system is used in the dodge viper from the factory, and is being used in our soon to be released viper twin and triple pump hangers. quite possibly in some time we may build a internal surge can assembly for the FD so that the owners can knock out that POS plastic baffle in the tank and hang a surge/collection can that siphons in all fuel surrounding it to give the pump(s) a buffer a fuel when in high G situations. If we did that, the assembly would be 800-900 bucks including the pumps. I dont know how that would go over in the RX7 world.

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

Here's a flow chart of the Bosch 044 pump v. the Walbro 255 HP. Not sure what the flow of the Denso pumps are but this is a start. Also, I tested current draw on the pair of 044s I just installed for a customer. The pair drew about 18 amps at 44 psi. 20 amps at 50 psi and about 22 at 60 psi. That's the draw of both pumps combined.

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

Found this chart of the Supra pump here.
http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelpumptests.htm

Marcel Burkett

Any one have a working kink for CJ Motorsports ?

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

http://www.cj-motorsports.com/