SPOautos

Buy a trailer dyno and travel around the coutry tuning 7's. You can set up a big nation wide schedule and people can sign up. There are sooooo many 7's not meeting thier potential and ALOT of people dont have access to a dyno and if they do the tuner usually doesnt know enough about tuning a rotory to pull reliable hp out of it.

Any of you super tuners interested, I might invest.

Hell, maybe I should buy the dyno and hire one of you guys to travel around tuning cars.

What do you guys think is that a good idea? Sounds like a itch that somone needs to scratch to me.

Later,
STEPHEN

LUV94RX7

iTrader: (3)

I'm sure if there was truely an expert he could look at your mods and make a fairly accurate estimate of what the dyno chart would look like after he worked his magic.

If these estimates were indeed accurate I'm sure many people would sign up to wring all the power from their engine safely.

If a guy has a mildly modded FD and is getting 320rwhp and the tuner can get him 350rwhp, that would be worth a lot of $$$ to most people.

Interesting idea.

Ken

VELCRO SHOES

Nobody would step up.

Jodeny

iTrader: (3)

CAll xs and fly their tuner out to you.
John

RETed

I'd like to hear your insurance agent cover you for liability on such a venture...


-Ted

Mr rx-7 tt

iTrader: (5)

They would..There are many mobile dynos, there is one here that travels all around and dynos at track events, club shows etc..

LUV94RX7

iTrader: (3)

I think the cost of someone with a mobile dyno and just running it to get a dyno chart would be fairly economical. To get some expert to actually tune your car to wring out the most power would be very expensive but possibly worth it. I can see it being more economical for major metro areas. The expert could use the forum to set it up. Let's say Chicago was scheduled for 1st week in July. See how many people sign up. If there is enough then he comes to Chicago for a week and tunes cars. I could see where it would be lucrative for the tuner and a good deal for the guy getting his car tuned by an expert. Like I said before, if the car is getting 320rwhp and the tuner says he can get 350rwhp, that's worth a lot of money to the guy with the car that paid tons of $$ on performance parts and is not getting the optimum performance due to improper tuning. Think of what it cost me to ship my car to KDR and then fly out and pick it up and drive back.

I bet there are people out there that would pay
$1-2,000 for an expert to show up and get that extra 30rwhp out of his car.

Ken

SPOautos

Yea, it really is a good idea. There are other trailer dynos, they mostly do events but it wouldnt be hard to set up a "tour" on the forum and make some good money.

I can get basically any kind of insurance thru my current agent. They supply all the insurance to our family business (we build cell phone towers among other things). If they will insure tower climers believe me this is cake. Zurich will cover most anything and they are a excellent company with great rates.

Even with a price of $150hr for dyno with full datalog (egt and everything) you would have a budget of $1200 a day for an 8hr day. That rate of $150 wouldnt be a bad rate at all. The dyno tuner I'd have to use in Atlanta charges $150 an hour if you get full datalog so its really just a normal rate for our area. I imagine most people would pay $200 and hour for a full dyno tune from a expert so that they know they have been propely tuned and that its RELIABLE. I know I would.

If there is a real for life dyno tuner out there (like Chris Anderson, Anthony Rodrigues, ect...) thats interested I'd like to talk to you.

I've ran some numbers and I know it would work if someone was interested.

STEPHEN

soul assassin

i'd do it if i wasn't in the military!

spyfish007

HAHA ... pay XS to fly out and tune your car ... what a joke!

Jodeny

iTrader: (3)

Justify your post.
John

LUV94RX7

iTrader: (3)

I think the real experts are too busy staying where they are and would not have the time to go around the country. I remember I was trying to get ahold of Dave at KDR and they said he had to fly somewhere to work on some guys car. I bet that cost someone a lot of $$$.

Ken

Jodeny

iTrader: (3)

I personally know people who have flown out an xs tuner and had their cars tuned. I didnt'; think it's a big deal and certainly not a joke if you have the money to pay for it.
John

SPOautos

Yea, I know XS and some others will come to you but it cost a fortune and you need to have a dyno ready to use. If you dont have access to a dyno its not something to consider unless they want to bring equipment and street tune it. I dont think they would want to street tune.

Anyway, a well known tuner that had a mobile dyno could make some serious $ with a nationwide tour around the states. At the same time he would be providing a economical (in my eyes) way to have a TRUE rotory expert tuner tune your car.

I checked some numbers and prices and someone could get a new mobile dynojet with all the equipment, computer, ect ect ect and a truck to pull it along with insurance for about $2000 a month. Well at $150 - $200 an hour that about a days work. I figured that a entire months worth of travel expenses, fuel, food, and the dyno/truck payment would be paid in about 3 good days of tuning. The entire rest of the month would be gravy. With a tour like that from a respected tuner people would be begging him to stay longer, he would probably have to turn people down.

Lets say they tuned 32hrs a week, thats 8hrs a day 4 days a week which alows a day to drive. At a rate of just $150 that would be $4800 a week. If you took 2 weeks a year for vacation that would be $20,000 a month avg. Subtract 3-4 days off cause that goes to pay all your expenses and it still leaves with with approx $15,200. a month. Not to mention all the parts like ignition boxes and stuff you could sell.

It would be awsome for a respected tuner with no family to worry about.

STEPHEN

spyfish007

Its a joke becasue I know several people who have either taken their ECU to them in them in person or sent it to them for programming. SPO sent his PFC and only took out a little bit of fuel because it felt so bad and popped his motor. Artguy took his ECU you there and now the thing barely runs. He had it running better on his own! The entire XS thing is crap .... I can go on, but you really don't care. Maybe you have to pay enough money before they offer their real services. If that is the case, then don't offer the "cheaper" service.

Here is the order of people I would take it to ...

KD rotary in PA
RP in TX

Then various guys on the forum who have spent hours figuring out how this thing works-I'm talking figuring out the little details here.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Alright. I sent my power fc to XS along with an extremely detailed mod list to have them give me a ballpark tune.

$200 and two weeks later, my car was so rich above 5500 rpms that it would break up and cut out.

Not only that, but when Dave at KDR used the datalogit to check my maps, he told me he couldn't believe my motor hadn't been damaged because of extremely high ignition timing on boost and areas with little to no split.

That's my first, only and last experience with XS.

Enough FDs blow motors without shitty tuning to compound the situation.

spyfish007

Oh yeah, Rich now makes 368 RHWP at 15 lbs of boost via KDR tuning and KDR ported motor with stock turbos. He also runs a very safe AF ratio of low 11s.

Anthony Rodrigues

ANSWER?
I do already travel over the world, tuning all types of engines/ECU's/vehicles. If anybody is interested I can normally organise a dyno in someones shop. The catch is that I need to get a few cars to do at the same time so that the costs are reasonable. I do have three kids, a wife and a business so I'll have to pass on that idea of travelling around the country, although it was an extremely good idea. I am however thinking of opening a business in the USA with another Aus Rotor specialist.
Give me your thoughts, is anyone interested.
Regards- Anthony Rodrigues

Jodeny

iTrader: (3)

I have plenty of xs maps. Single turbo/twin turbo/ported/non-ported. Of course they are going to tune it on the rich side. That is why you send it for a "ballpark tune." They assume you are going to dyno tune it afterwards. If they left it lean wouldn't that be ridiculous? Thay are all different and some do work better than others but none are capable of blowing motors. Most FD motors blow for 2 reasons:

1. The owner doesn't know how to change a spark plug, however they borrow tools to perform work on their own cars.

2. They try to get away cheap and do half-assed mods and expect to make the same power with someone who has done it right.

Dave is an excellent mechanic for stock rotarys but when it comes to drag racing and tuning for maximum power I don't know how much experience he has. I did from a loose opinion from other posts however I would not share it until I meet and speak with him personally.

I have seen many a good product get a bad reputation from people who have killed their cars because of their own stupidity, not the actual products.

I have also seen bad products get a great reputation on this forum. Keep the J&S knock sensor in mind. Every moron plunked down 500 dollars thinking they could run whatever boost they wanted and their motor wouldn't detonate because of this wonderful 'safety' device. When xs said you don't need one every attacked them like they were evil however he knew the timing split would be negative one the unit activated and ......

regards,
John

0piston

iTrader: (9)

I in I'm sure many of us are... I remember Matt (The Hitman) said he was going to do a North american tuning tour in designated areas Northwest, east coast etc. Don't know what is happening right now....

spyfish007

Ok, I can completely understand the idea here. The problem seems to be that when XS tunes them and the customer gets it back it runs like complete crap-ie more than just a little extra fuel.

The guys I know:
1. Can definately change a spark plug and several can pull the engine, etc, etc.
2. Have plenty of money and time doing it right. They have the right products, they got them in correct order, etc, etc.

I think motors blow because:
1. Too many mods without any fuel work
2. Too many hot runs. The intake temps get too hot and the driver does nothing about it or even the coolant temps get too hot.
3. Something happens to boost control causing too much boost.
4. Faulty apex seals from the beginning. I've seen too many motors go because of 2mm seals that were really 1.93mm which is too much tolerance.

Well you just did! Besides who ever said they were after max power? You tune different for max power (drag) and good power (road race, steet,etc) because you are after different goals... ie motor life! I think Dave did an excellent job on Rich's car. I mean, 368 on 15 psi is nothing to shake a stick at either.

I'd be curious as to what you would put on this list. I could probably agree with you on this one.

I to was thinking about the J&S but it was long before I was ever on this forum. SCC did a feature on it and RP used it as well. I don't remember the XS thread, so I'll take you word for it.

My point with all of this is simple. I know many people that are not happy with XS. I'm sure there are people who are happy with XS as you seem to be. I want people to know there is a chance (in my mind, a good chance) that you will not be happy with the XS service/product when it comes to the PowerFC. I have personally seen places like RP and KD go above and beyond for the customer even when it was the customers fault!

Jodeny

iTrader: (3)

We both have read about problems with all tuners. If someone has something negative to say I just like to see them back it up with proof?
Any moron can state the "who" of a problem, it is the "why's" and "how's" I pay attention to.
John

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

I agree with many of your points.

However,

Allow me to reiterate.

XS Engineering had my timing so fucked up that my motor was operating in an extremely unsafe manner. Does over 50 degrees of advance on the IGL under boost sound safe to you? Or *no* split at all under boost toward redline?

Dave found all of this with the datalogit. This pisses me off more than anything has in a long time. When you trust someone and they bend you over and jam their fist up your ***, you tend to take it personally.

Rich

artguy

hey jodeny....if ya keep dealing with xs youll get it up the A$$ eventually (notice the DOLLAR SIGNS). dont believe me? go ahead and learn the hard way. I did..so did many others.


below is my link...read it and weep....just like I do..

I spent over ten grand in the past six months patiently building my car...almost twenty grand in mods and learning experiences in the past year alone. I can do much of the work to my car on my own and if you read my mod list you will see that I attempted to the best of my abilities to do this right. I am capable of changing my plugs..pulling my transmission...etc...your claims of owner ineptitude are grossly exaggerated. I did plenty of research...and my fears tell me it is all for nothing.

notice how many people are respected on the forums and have complaints over xs tuning mistakes. spyfish and goodfella are two of these guys. Id listen to them before any salesmen at xs. Ive spoken with a handful of very knowledgable and respected rx7 owners in the past few days. After hearing what they all say...and seeing the results of poor tuning on my prescious investment I can say that I will NEVER use xs again.

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...5&pagenumber=1

later

jason

SPOautos

I'm not a fan of XS. I also sent them my PFC to get a "base map for my mods" while my motor was in the process of a rebuild. I enclosed a VERY detailed letter stating EVERYTHING done to my car. When I got it back I installed it and my turbo system wouldnt work. Since it was a fresh motor install and I kept the seq system I figured it was something in the "rats nest" that I put together wrong. Anyway, after pulling my manifold a time or two I eventually came to the conclusion that everything was perfect and started looking elseware. There is a seq / non seq setting in the PFC. They had that set to non seq, after correcting that error my turbo system was now flawless!!! I called them about it to see if the map they gave me was tuned for non seq and they said no that the setting was prob just a misstake. Well 4000 miles later my brand new motor pops at about 2500-3000K rpms when under lite boost. My guess is that they did infact give me a non seq map that wasnt running enough fuel at low rpms. There were other problems with the map like negative split, ect ect ect.

My first motor was also poped with a XS pfc map. I had 2 motors pop and both of them were within about 5K miles of installing the PFC with a XS map. My car ran for about a year on the PFC base map then with XS maps started blowing.


Anyway, draw your own conclusions but I wouldnt advise anyone to get a base map from XS without checking it on a dyno/wideband before using it. If you have access to that there really isnt a need for a xs map anyway.


They might do better if you take your car there, I dont know.

STEPHEN