Manolis_D

iTrader: (2)

Hey guys,

I finally got my 60-1 installed with the custom manifold, NPR front mount and HKS standard WG, and now i've got some questions

I was told the wastegate had a 6 psi spring, but it seems to hit 10 pretty quickly (near 7k rpm / redline). I have the haltech set w/ a boost limit at 8psi, so it should be sending the WG full pressure when it hits 8 (so i don't think it's a boost controller problem). Is there any way to tell if this is due to boost creep vs. just having a 10 psi spring in there?

Second, for fuel i've got a walbro GSS341 (255lph) and 4x550's (Stock TII fuel system). at 6500 rpm, reading ~9-10 psi, my wideband (A techedge.com / DIY wideband) is pegged on rich, and the car seems to bog a bit. How the heck is that possible? I hear of people maxing out 550/1600cc/min injector setups (I've got the big ones, just haven't made a rail yet), and the 550's seem to be working fine for me at the moment? Is this just because my redline is 7K right now (i find that a stretch, but just in case)?

Third, I got a Blow off Valve from my J-Spec motor, and it now refuses to work. I took it apart and it looked like the o-rings had shrunken up a bit, so i piled some grease up in it, hoping that they would swell up again. It seemed to work for a day or so, but now it seems to be dead again . Any suggestions on this? the adjustment screw looks to be backed out almost all the way. The only markings on it say "Pro Sperice" I believe, with the "S" very large and in front of the two words. Anybody have more info on this?

Other than that, the setup seems to be working pretty well. The car pulls quite nicely from about 5500 on up to 7k ( I guess it should at 10psi!), and the open wastegate sounds pretty cool

Any insight into my condition (or that of my car ) would be appreciated!
Manolis

PS check out ] THIS thread for pics of the manifold / turbo setup...

twokrx7

iTrader: (1)

My HKS WG with a 10 psi spring would start to vent at 6 psi boost pressure, full open around 10 psi. Confirmed this with the WG out of the car using an air pump. YMMV

1FastT2

iTrader: (1)

I hear that the Haltech boost controller doesn't work very well. Im using a HKS WG with a 10psi spring that will only usually allow 8 psi, so it works pretty nicely with my manifold. Sorry I dont have any ideas about your other questions.

88fc3sw/HX83

Maybe that IS a 10 psi spring in there

setzep

What if you were to just bypass the boost controller and run the line directly from the WG to the intake manifold? I would think that would let you know what spring pressure you have. Or you could do what twokrx7 did with his.

Manolis_D

iTrader: (2)

I guess I'll plug the line to the boost solenoid (directly connecting the WG to the manifold. We'll see what kind of boost it sees then.

Also, any thoughts on the injectors? My wideband is PEGGED on rich around 5500-redline, and the car is bogging big time because of it (acceleration REALLY drops off beyond 5500 in 2nd / 3rd. The injectors are (I believe) 4x550's, and I'm getting peak injection times of around 10ms. I'll do a log to check duty cycle this afternoon probably. I'll lean it out a bit later today up top and see what happens (fingers crossed ).

I'll have to go get the BOV working soon as well, I happen to like my new turbo

Thanks for the input,
Manolis

setzep

Your right that doesn't sound right, rich with 550's all around with a 60-1. Doesn't make sence. Thats only 265hp worth of fuel at 85% duty. You sure you don't have something else becides 550's in the secondaries?

Bad2ndgen

Are you sure your wideband is reading correctly, if it was me I would want to know that before I started leaning things out. I say thin cuz your bogging down symptoms sound alot like when you are running out of fuel. Do you have an E.G.T. guage? or any other means of checking a/f. You could do a plug check first, just go out and get on it untill it starts bogging and then kill the motor and coast to a stop. Pull a leading plug and look at the colour, if it is white to light brown you are running lean, and if it is dark brown to black you are running rich.

Good luck

Manolis_D

iTrader: (2)

Ahha, a bit of an update...
Yesterday I had taken all of the fuel ranges and richened them up 15% from ~3k - redline. It turns out that I accidentally did that twice to the 5500 rpm map (doh!), so it was about 30% richer than 12.5:1 (oops... that makes it about 9:1 !) Anyways, I smoothed that back out so it's in line with the other rpm ranges, and it's running much better now. I might go outside in a bit (once things cool off ) and check the color on the plugs.

I need to get another tool to doublecheck the A/F, as the only indication of it that I have is the wideband. Is an EGT gauge the 'backup of preference' ? Hopefully in the next week or two my friend will have his wideband built, and i'll put another bung in the DP so we can run them side by side. I'm hoping that they read similarly, and on the rich side as well .

Unfortunately the BOV hasn't started working right yet (At least I don't think so), so that's it as far as full-throttle goes until i fix it.

setzep: I finally remembered to set the data page to read duty cycle today. with the 5500 rpm range 15% too rich, it hit 100% (oops.. damn). That was at about 8-9 lbs I think, so it's definitely time for the 165#/hr injectors. Anybody have some recommendations on relatively inexpensive fuel pressure regulators?

I know it's probably way to early to tell, but things aren't looking too good as far as power goes. At 9 psi the 550's seem to be supplying enough fuel to the motor (too much, if the WB is correct). Working backwards, this seems to point to no more than 280 or so at the crank... quite a bit less than I was hoping for from a full 60-1 at 9 psi. Oh well, the devil's in the details I guess

Keep the comments coming
Manolis

setzep

It will be a whole different story when you turn the boost up to 15psi where the 60-1 really shines

Manolis_D

iTrader: (2)

For those of you who were, um, 'intrigued' by my seemingly impossibly injection times / duty cycle problem... here's a data log I got on my street (open WG, loud exhaust, 55mph.. i think my neighbors are gonna kill me ) As you can see, the injectors are definitely maxed out at 7000rpm / 9psi. Anyhow, pages 1 & 2 are mostly 1st gear, pages 3 & 4 are 2nd. I think the car may be getting a touch of wheel spin on the 1-2 shift (shifting quickly, but not trying for spin ), and possibly at the top of first, with 225/45 17's (50 lbs / corner... damned heavy mustang wheels ).

I'm heading outside now to look at my plugs.

-Manolis

Manolis_D

iTrader: (2)

Oops, forgot the log...

Manolis_D

iTrader: (2)

Oops, forgot the log...

Felix Wankel

6340 8.0 188 27 13.5 8.624 95 18 14 17 0:00:04.2
6780 8.5 188 27 13.5 8.896 100 18 15 17 0:00:04.3

D'oh!

Manolis_D

iTrader: (2)

here's a pic of the plugs. Leadings are on the left. They are stock heat ratings, so BUR7EQ in the leadings and BUR9EQ in the trailing holes.

If you look closely you can see a bit of blue on the leadings, is that 'normal' / 'ok'?

Thanks,
Manolis

Manolis_D

iTrader: (2)

Felix: yeah, I know I'd be running around in a panic if the O2 wasn't pegged on 10:1! Despite that slight reassurance, i'm staying out of the gas until I put the 1680's in. Wow... one of the 'big guys' responded

Bad2ndgen

Those look pretty good. Have you tried running 9eq's (trailing's) as leading's, they are a little colder and should be a little healthier at top end.

Woah...we are out of duty cycle!

Felix Wankel

Yeah they look good to me too. Do you know if your car has low or high impedance injectors? It won't hurt the low impedance ones to run wide open like that (only the motor, so its still bad ). Maybe thats why it stayed pegged rich, I think a high impedance injector will hang up at 100%.

Get those 1680s in there and run it up to about 15 psi.

Manolis_D

iTrader: (2)

These are the only plugs I have tried as of yet. I pulled them after the run you see in the log and then a 5 minute idle period (idle @ 14.0:1). I think the plugs look "OK" myself, but the sensor is reading REALLY rich. I suppose I'll just have to take it all down to the dyno once most of the bugs are sorted out and see what it's reading on their O2 sensor. The only accuracy issue I can think of is that I used a large M18x1.5 nut as an O2 bung, and the sensor may not be immersed in the exhaust quite enough. I'm not sure this is too much of a problem, however, as before the turbo swap I had the same nut cut in 1/2 welded in (sensor stuck quite far). The readings before vs. after the swap at idle are identical. The car won't idle 'cleanly' leaner than ~14.2:1 now, just as it did before.

Hmm... I know that colder plugs are less detonation-prone, but I hadn't heard that they fire better up top. I was under the impression that they were a bit harder to spark regardless of where in the rpm range. Boy i've got a lot to learn! I've also been thinking about an MSD 6A to help a few things (mainly gas mileage it's like 13 around town!). I wonder how much of a difference that'll make.

As far as the duty cycle goes, the big injectors will be in by the end of the week I hope! Until then, i'll have to restrain myself

Manolis_D

iTrader: (2)

Whoops, missed that post while I was typing mine up. I believe they are high impedance injectors -- they're from a series 5 J-spec block. By hang up you mean 'stick open' i take it? The only sticking i've noticed is around idle / low rpm (used some crappy gas / 2 stroke, but it seems to be getting better w/ FI cleaner)

Edit -- Is it possible to tell if it is running too rich based on the plugs, or is it something like "if the AFR is richer than xxx they'll look dark <like mine>"?

setzep

I'd skip the MSD, ajc-13b is running the stock T2 coils with close to 600hp under his belt. I think the stock coils are just fine To get better mileage you just need to tune, tune and some more tuning then some closed loop operation with the fuel. Maxthe7man said he got high 20's with his T2 running closed loop.

Felix Wankel

A high imp. injector will overheat and stick, and quit flowing fuel if it is run at 100% too long. I don't think you did it enough to hurt anything.

You probably have it so rich in the lower RPM range that it blackened the plugs like that.

PS: what kind of wideband do you have?

Manolis_D

iTrader: (2)

Setzep: I wasn't going to mess with the coils, but rather use the MSD's multiple sparking to help smooth things out / help mileage down low. I was also thinking that if it is misfiring at all due to running rich up top (Only the dyno will tell i guess), then that might help clean it up. The car is tuned almost perfectly for driving around town, with ratios between 14.7 and 15.5 for cruising (around 14.3 - 14.7 for accelerating). No matter what I do the damned thing refuses to get more than about 13-14 mpg in the city, and ~18 on the freeway. The freeway cruising AFR is about 15.x:1, which seems to be right on.
The only issue that I can think of that might still be affecting fuel economy is low compression. The engine (stock ports) only pulls about 13-14 inHg at a 750rpm idle, tuned at 14.0:1 with 1oz/1gallon premix ratio (OMP is gone). It's driving me nuts! lol.

Felix: Oops, don't want that! I'll make sure to get the bigger injectors in there before I play with it any more. The wideband is the Techedge WB kit V 1.0 (www.techedge.com.au). I will pull it apart and check the free air voltage this week sometime, hopefully it will be right on (that's how you calibrate them).

Just out of curiosity, how does the timing look? I think it's at about 18* BTDC at 8-9 psi of boost.

Thanks,
Manolis

setzep

Sounds like you have everything in order.

If memory serves me right 18 deg advance sounds about right for 8-9 psi. I always hear people say run 12 deg at 15 psi so I'm assuming your all right. anyone??