RICE RACING

That is totaly irrelevant, just because you can run a good time does not mean you can use this to make an unrealistic claim for a given set of conditions.

So I suppose if I ran back to back 7 second passes I could claim that I made 700rwhp from my single rotor 10A stock port with KKK turbo and 5 psi boost with no nos and no IC ??? You get my point.

The facts are that with what he has listed there is no way that power is possible, not to say he has not made that power, but he sure as hell did not do it at that boost (19psi) pressure....regardless of what turbo/s he used.

Again the key here is with the "parameters" given by SR setting out the exact mods and setup he used to make this power. Think about it, he has done this so people will look at it and go "gee, If I do the exact same mods (or get SR to do them for me) then I will get the SAME result" I WILL BET MY PROFESSIONAL REPUTATION THAT NO ONE, HE OR HIS CUSTOMERS WILL GET THE RESULT HE CLAIMS, with 19psi, KKK, air to air IC, 13B REW, non bridge or PP porting, and only 6800rpm, no NOS, and PUMP gas...........for 544RWHP (over 600bhp engine). This is out and out false advertising in my opinion, cause lets fase it, lots of young guys who have no idea will be looking at his site and going "WOW" that is heaps better than other peoples claims, I should get SR to do my work as his claims are by far the best !

As I said, there is no unexplaind MAGIC factors involved here, if you want the facts ring around and ask many different shops of their opinions of what can be done, infact ring a turbo shop and ask them what Volumetric efficiency your 2.6 lt engine needs to run at to make 600bhp at only 6800rpm and what pressure ratio (ie boost) you will need to run to make this power...YOU WILL BE SUPRISED WITH THE ANSWER THEY WILL GIVE YOU !

When EVERY other place tells you that what you want to achieve is UNACHIEVABLE, then you can pretty much bet your house on the fact that the person making the claim is not telling you the truth of how he made that power.

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

Exit 13B is wrong about the criteria. I do not know what the exact paper work he is talking about but I am 100% sure he is wrong about it. To become a Power Excel dealer, you need to have an in-house dyno, not just access to a dyno. Anyone can have access to a dyno. The in-house dyno requirement is set up so the tuner can tune the car in-house using the Power Excel software on the dyno. the proper way of using Power Excel Program. If you only have access to a dyno which is located 10-20 miles away, does that mean everytime someone coming to your shop to have the Power FC tune, you will need to go down to a dyno shop miles away and setup an appointment to have it done? Now do you see why in-house dyno is required? APEX believes that the Power Excel software will do the most if it's tuned on the dyno. I am also 100% sure there is no such thing as Power Excel dealer for suspension tuning. It seems to me Exit 13B just tries very hard to defend Ray, using wrong information. No wonder he defends Ray. It seems to me they are the same kind of people who use wrong information to fool people for selfish purposes.

vosko

iTrader: (4)

to me the claims seem extremely high (very HAPPY DYNO ?) just from seeing alot of dyno sheets from other forum members. but you guys need to stop bashing each other. if exit13b has had a good experience with SR that is his opinion. if all of you want to prove a point call SR and ask them to send you the specs or dyno sheet or send a video of the replicating the dyno run and tell him you think it is unlikely to have made that much power. everyone is entitled to an opinion. i personally don't like a certain shop that everyone else loves and i got brutally flamed about talking about my negative experiences there. only way i see to resolve this is to call ray @ sr and ask him about how this was possible. cause everyone arguing is doing nothing except causing more arguing.

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

You have to understand his 8 sec car is fairly different from most of our cars. It has back half and it runs on methanol. If you want to talk about horsepower, I am pretty sure his car has just about the same horsepower as RP's race car. If RP's car has the same kind of suspension, transmission, etc, it should be able to run 8's as well. The ET is the best way to estimate horsepower. Both cars have simliar ET. RP's car should be heavier than Ray's car because it has full interior. In this case, I am suspecting RP's car even has more horsepower than Ray's. Most RX-7 owners are looking for setups that can be driven on the street. I do not think it's proper to compare the drag racing only setups to our daily drivers. I do not run 8's but I drive my T51R kai single turbo rx7 on the street everyday. I use just 91 octane gas. This is the kind of setup that most people want or have. Not the drag queens. If you want to run 8's like Ray, you will have to have the rest of the stuff. Not just the turbo alone. If people claim "race on Sunday, sell on Monday." The stuff they sell should be the one used on the race car. People have to be smart. The things vendors sell to you might not be the ones they use on the race cars. I know a couple of vendors that do this kind of claims which are false or misleading. The best way is go to the race track and ask them to pop the hood of their race car to see if they are really selling you what they are using. There is no such thing as secret spec if he is selling you what he is using on the race car, especially if he makes that "race on sunday, sell on monday" claim.

RICE RACING

vosko,

I think people are intelligent enough to realise like most of us, that things do not add up or even come close, maybe we should check with him? Just for a laugh...

I guess it comes down to people like myself knowing that there is no way something like that claimed is possible, and we would not even entertaining the thought of wasting a phone call or listening to him trying to justify how he manages to get a result like that when it is so far out of the realms of science as we/I know it.

I think the question forwarded to SR should be more like. "Are those details you provide on your site accurate in terms of specifications from hardware to settings, such as boost pressure?"

If he replies "Yes to all"

Then, I for one know he is either neglecting to tell you the whole story, or lying....take your pick.

It realy comes down a lot to personal character when asking them to reveal details of things like this, it is easy for the person in question to be not 100% truthfull about a number of details if he/she chooses...the problem with this is that, you will get a "freak" like me for example who will be able to expose any little detail that does not make sence. You have to remember I do not do this for my own personal gain, as I am sure many of the other people on this board have better things to do with their time also, I/we only raise questions when there is a very real danger of people believing a claim that is not real in the context in which it is presented.

I will tell you this much that if his claim is REAL, you would have seen many examples of it by now from other customers getting the same result as crispeed mentioned in his earlier post, simple as that.

I know I for one would sell all my gear and get Ray to build me the same set up and send it to Australia, cause I would love to have a 620+hp (544rwhp + minimal drive losses) 13B that made that max power at 6800rpm with a full exhaust, pump fuel, and only 19psi boost with an air to air IC,and no NOS.
But I won't, you know why? cause it aint REAL ! and ANYONE who makes a representation like that on their web site I would not trust, infact I would not even give them the oportunity of explaing how they did it cause I am simply not that stupid and do not like dealing with liars.

Poweraxel

while some people have had good expericences with him..I for one find him to lie to me and is very deceptive...im not alone either. it wouldnt suprise me if he theres more to that dyno then he claims or if he "forgot to add some things". while the power fc is a great ecu, i have never seen or heard those type of #'s with it especially with gasoline and at 19psi. the fact that he posted "on gasoline" makes me think he wants people to think this is possible on a normal "john doe" street driven car, which i believe is false...**** if he could get that much power with a power fc/gasoline/19psi why doesnt he tweak it out more w/ more boost and race gas for a his/others race car?!!

if anyone has had any good experiences with him, great! i feel happy you did but this is just my feeling/experience

Steve

vosko

iTrader: (4)

i'm not doubting his seemingly false claim. i've heard lots of the stories. although i have only talked to him once. trust me i wish i also could make 544 rwhp @ 19 psi with those mods in my FD but i know it isn't gonna happen. i know of race engines that produce that much power at 30+ psi. all i meant to say was try not to flame each other over opinions

Marshall

I was reading the fine print on the SR website. It never said anything about PUMP gas......just "gas"....whatever that means.
Also, it said "19+ PSI". To me, 19+ means anything over 19, so it could have been 20 or 80 psi, who really knows. Not false advertising I guess, but damn close.

Poweraxel

hahahaha..this is funny now...before it had "at 19psi" now he changed it by putting a "plus +" sign after 19psi!.....what a joke..he probably realized he was getting aalot of flack for this.. **** he should of put "+1psi" if he wanted to be more vague. that guy is a joke he probably realized people would bust him out if he removed the "19psi" figured..so he put a "+19psi" on it now


laughable!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve

1FAST7

actually, before i was looking to buying the KKK stage 2 kit from them. Before this thread. The 19+psi was there. It always had a plus there. So i guess it isnt false. Even he should have stated at what psi level. Its not false. It said 19+psi from a long time ago. So all you who keep flaming him shouldnt. But I would agree with other people that will probably reply, that he should have wrote what exact psi it was at.

1FAST7

Poweraxel

1fast7:
1m 100% sure it didnt have a + sign...not to bust your ***** but the original poster of this thread stated "19psi" and you said "yes it was ported. But on Gasoline!!! " so i figured by you saying "yes" you agreed what he posted at 19psi..i think you were the 2nd person to reply to this thread..it seems like your the only one who thinks it was 19+psi.

does anyone else remember the "19psi+" figure?? other posters seem to agree that 19psi was there...im sure people would of corrected people if it was 19psi+ by now..this thread was seen over 600+ times..only until today this + sign is brought up..if im mistaken i guess alot other people are too

Steve

JBC

That + was not there. That particular dyno chart did not show up until this week and I am positive it said 19psi and pump gas. It also didn't say race port and fully built. It said ported 13BREW.
Hmmmmm..

I don't have any experience with SR motorsports but perhaps they need to be more specific with their Web developer.


But back to Rice Racing's comments about the 6800 RPMs. That seems strange that the graph falls off then. Did they let off the throttle on the dyno. It seems like a "fully built" race ported engine and a huge KKK turbo would make power until 8000 RPMs at least.

vosko

iTrader: (4)

i'm pretty sure it said 19psi and pump gas. now it also says 544+ hp ...

Poweraxel

yeah your right, a "+" sign was added after 19psi and after 544hp now.. the truth is coming out

RICE RACING

Hate to say it, but told you so......

I will give SR credit for having the ***** to change the details on his site, it takes a real man to admit when he has made a mistake, intentional or not.

Greg

The truth is,until we see an actual video of the boost guage at 19psi and the dyno recording at the same time then we will never know. But most of us with half a brain know that the claims of 544 rwhp at only 19psi are a bit "dreamy". A quick car can be made with the perfect combination of parts rather than brute power so dont let the 8 sec quater mile times fool you. This car is totally built for drag racing unlike the RP car. The RP car does not have a jerico transmission, its not backhalfed and is damn sure dont have a drag racing rear end setup and suspention. All those factors come into play when it comes to drag times. The other factor is that now there is a sale on the kit that supposedly makes 544hp, seems like a ploy to sell some turbo kits as Ray has not been too much of a factor this season in the import drag racing circut. If for some strange act of god, the kit really does make that much HP Ill mail my car there and get the motor and turbo system from them

Exit13B

Ahhhhh, this is much better. The last dozen or so posts are more along the line of what is acceptable: skepticism, but not defamation! I know I pi**ed some people off stepping in, but the thread seems more civilized now. I can see that two cars are being confused a bit; I have not seen any times claimed for the 544hp car, but certainly that would be interesting to see – much like someone mentioned the XS claims earlier (BTW- did anyone notice that in the XS graphs the torque and HP do not merge at the correct point?). The 8 second car is running on methanol I believe, runs in the area of 25 PSI, and does have a sequential, etc. It would, in fact, not be fair to use that car’s stats as a selling point for a kit that was not the same, but that is not the case. Has anyone seen a compressor map for a KKK turbo? This thread reminds me of some on the ‘big list’ a few years ago when 60-1 owners were doubtful of the numbers guys were obtaining with T-78’s 88’s, etc, and some of the other turbos that we take for granted now. I have never seen a map, so I cannot make a scientific claim about the validity of these numbers. I can neither verify them, nor discredit them. Can anyone else argue differently? Da*n, I wish I had not replied when I did, so that I could have came in a day or two later and left a cool post like crispeed did.
I think I can settle the + thing by checking the cache on the computer at the shop, which has not been connected since I posted my regretful response. I am not biased; if I can concur that the page changed, you guys will know!
I also have some paperwork to scan here which will clear up some other issues.
Well, once the insurance companies figure out my car, I guess I will get a manifold from crispeed, and then buy a big-a*s KKK to find out for myself. I am curious now! Hell, maybe I’ll come back with some unbelievable numbers and create more controversy!

RICE RACING

Exit13B

On a side note, nothing about the XS claims made sence to me ! , I argued alot about it, as did others, and funnily enough all those posts are missing from the original thread.....

It is also interesting how we do not hear from them (XSPOWER) anymore? I suppose once they achieved their aim of selling a few kits through this site, via a carefully planned attack of posting (in my opinion a very misleading claim) and sucking in lots of people that they had achieved what they set out to do, to sell their kits.

Like the case with SR a lot of us did not believe the "parameters" forwarded by the company to achieve the power out put they claimed, I for one provided alot of scientific evidence to expose the gaps in their little plan, in the end they took the car in question to the track and it did a terminal speed wich would be assosiated with a much lower powered car than the one put forward on the graphs (I know there are a lot of variables here, but terminal speed is a very accurate measure of a cars power) And lets face it, if you are a company like that and you are trying to prove a point like at the time when we were all on their back, you would make sure that you do not have all the excuses in the world lined up to justify why you went so slow.

But at the end of the day, we have a company that has sold a lot of kits, a street car that never performed to the power claimed, a claim that was never verified (ie boost pressure used), a lot of people who doubted it, and a thread on this forum that has none of this info so when other people do a search they can see what actually went on and see the full story.

The truth is out there, even if it is covered up !

SPOautos

I copied this from thier page in my cache.......





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KKK Single Turbo Stage 2

544 horsepower at 19 psi on gasoline.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dyno Power Results

Our project 94' RX-7 was put on the dynojet. We installed a ported fully built 13B REW engine and removed most of the factory emissions then installed a custom built fuel system along with our power pulley set, 304 stainless steel catback exhaust system, midpipe and tuned A'PEXi Power FC. To hold all of this abuse , we opted for one of our Xtreme ACT street / strip clutch / 9.5 # flywheel sets.

At only 19 PSI boost it produced 544 Horsepower with 447 ft. pounds of torque on gasoline.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Street Version Stage II

KKK Single Turbo Kit
This kit is designed for the street / track driven 93-95 RX-7. Full boost by 4000 rpm. Comes with complete instructions ,custom exhaust manifold, 50mm racing wastegate, stainless steel 304 downpipe, aircraft quality AN fitting oil lines,block off plates, vacuum tubing, water lines, heat shields.

540+ HP 19psi




***No cutting or welding of your intake manifold

like with the T-78 or T- 88 kits . Just bolt it on ***




$3899

Sale



Was

$4,499


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Package #6

KKK Single turbo kit (Stage I or II), Ultimate fuel pump, larger fuel injectors, A'PEXi FC Commander, A'PEXi Power FC (SR custom tuned ) SR power pulley and fan belts.



540+ HP 19psi







$6299

Savings

of $869





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Contact Us

Website designed by Brodie Peterson and SRM
Website maintained by SRM.

© Copyright 2000 SRMotorsports.com. All rights reserved.









***********************************

No + but it does say "ported fully build 13B REW engine"

Later,

Poweraxel

hahahaha.. thanks for posting this out of your cache..this just proves the website was changed and the + has been added..

lets smoke these dyno terrorists out of there holes!

Steve

vosko

iTrader: (4)

hahaha, nice work

Astro

what cutting and welding is required?
(sorry kinda off topic..hehe)

Poweraxel

On U.S. cars...The "big" turbos need the EGR valve grinded down or removed for the turbo to sit properly.

I've had the HKS T51-R Kai and the T-78 and i completely machined off the ACV and the EGR and wrapped the lower intake manifold with heat wrap...

peejay

What is the correction factor?

Maybe they were correcting to a hypothetical -40degF (or C for that matter) day at an altitude of 2 or 3 miles below sea level? And the "gasoline" they used was Sunoco 116 octane race fuel? (don't forget the bottles of liquid nitrogen spraying on the intercooler)

- PJ (300hp N/A extend port 12A... corrected of course )

black99

hey, check it out, someone sent them a ton of emails, so they put up a little more of what all was done. Look where it says "update 9-26-01" . http://www.srx7.com/544hp.html