544 rwhp/447 TQ @ 19 psi......
09-20-01, 12:21 AM
#1
rotary sensei
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544 rwhp/447 TQ @ 19 psi......
I was at Ray Lockheads site and he's got a dyno of 544 rwhp and 447 TQ.....19 PSI on gas, (kkk turbo) I assume race fuel....Impressive. I wonder if that is a street port....
09-20-01, 02:16 PM
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09-20-01, 04:48 PM
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Guys dont believe that ..
there is no way in hell ,he made that hp and at 19 and also on pump gas hahahaha ...He problably did that amount of hp but at like 26psi and full race gas and the eng at least street port ...
09-20-01, 06:29 PM
#6
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
That guy (SR) is a crack ***** !
I looked at that graph !
max power at 6800rpm it has a torque spike which means it is a side port (prety funken gay one at that!) by the revs of peak power.
Now the engine would have to be making over 600bhp to make that rwhp.
Now with a 90% eff IC (very very efficient)
90% eff porting (doubt it!)
250g/hp/hr bsfc @ 11.0:1 af ratio
6800rpm on a std temp pressure day (ie corrected like on his graph)
YOU NEED TO RUN 29 PSI BOOST minimum !!!!!!!!!!
That guys figures remind me of XS Engineering "style" claims
I looked at that graph !
max power at 6800rpm it has a torque spike which means it is a side port (prety funken gay one at that!) by the revs of peak power.
Now the engine would have to be making over 600bhp to make that rwhp.
Now with a 90% eff IC (very very efficient)
90% eff porting (doubt it!)
250g/hp/hr bsfc @ 11.0:1 af ratio
6800rpm on a std temp pressure day (ie corrected like on his graph)
YOU NEED TO RUN 29 PSI BOOST minimum !!!!!!!!!!
That guys figures remind me of XS Engineering "style" claims
09-20-01, 06:37 PM
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Ray lockhead is a reputable guy,I honestly do not think he would put out false claims like that.Could it possibly just be that he actually knows how to tune his cars?
hmm
hmm
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09-20-01, 07:10 PM
#8
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
I think Ray knows how to tune his MOTHER !
You see, the problem is that people cannot get away with making bullshit claims. Sure there will be the odd inexperienced person or just plain moron who will believe anything that gets put up infront of them, not everyone who is in the game of building rotaries and tunning engines knows what figures are right and what is just a plain lie...
There are MANY reputable people on this board who have alot of experience in what REAL numbers are, not only this but how they are achieved....REMEMBER the WORD REAL !
There is no black magic, or funny science involved in this game when we are all working with the same engines, things like compression ratio's, gas specifications, engine specs, are all withtin given parameters that alot of us know about. It is easy therefore when someone makes a claim to verify this either by personal experience or by analytical assesment. Some peoples claims fall well short (ie XS's claim, when they took their car to the strip and basically did nothing compared to the power they claim), Rays claims with the data provided are UNREALISTIC at the best and at the WORST are a total lie with the figures he provides and what I can see on his graphs.
I am sure there are many people who agree with my assesment, just they do not bother wasting their time replying to such bullshit claims.
You see, the problem is that people cannot get away with making bullshit claims. Sure there will be the odd inexperienced person or just plain moron who will believe anything that gets put up infront of them, not everyone who is in the game of building rotaries and tunning engines knows what figures are right and what is just a plain lie...
There are MANY reputable people on this board who have alot of experience in what REAL numbers are, not only this but how they are achieved....REMEMBER the WORD REAL !
There is no black magic, or funny science involved in this game when we are all working with the same engines, things like compression ratio's, gas specifications, engine specs, are all withtin given parameters that alot of us know about. It is easy therefore when someone makes a claim to verify this either by personal experience or by analytical assesment. Some peoples claims fall well short (ie XS's claim, when they took their car to the strip and basically did nothing compared to the power they claim), Rays claims with the data provided are UNREALISTIC at the best and at the WORST are a total lie with the figures he provides and what I can see on his graphs.
I am sure there are many people who agree with my assesment, just they do not bother wasting their time replying to such bullshit claims.
09-21-01, 03:35 AM
#9
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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I would agree with rice racing based on some of the facts I know about Ray from SRX7.com.
Fact 1: Ray lied about being the Power Excel dealer. At least about the requirement of being one. One of the requirement of being a Power Excel dealer is having a in-house dyno. Ray DOES NOT have one. He is running his business in his house. Do you think the city hall will let him have a dyno in the residential area? As long as he is still running his business in his house, garage, whatever, he will not have a dyno and he shouldn't be qualified as a Power Excel dealer. Rotary Porformance (rx7.com) has an in-house dyno. They are selling power FC's on their website now but they are not a Power Excel dealer. rx7.com seems more qualified. Can APEX explain why this is?
Fact2: Ray constantly undermined other RX-7 vendors' businesses by spreading rumors and bashing them on the rx7 mailing list. I was a victim before I sold my business. I believed Jason from RX-7 store was bashed by him badly about 2 years ago on the mailing list along with a lot of his followers or believers who did not know what really was going on.
Fact3: He does not have any business ethics. The power FC remapping charge is a joke and a scam. I have compared his maps which were posted on the forum with the base map. There is almost no difference except he retards the leading timing by 2, 4, 6 degrees within a range of cells. By looking at how much he retards the timing and how he enriches the map, you can tell it's not tuned on the dyno. He does not have a in-house dyno so I am wondering where his dyno-tuned claim is coming from. I am pretty sure all the maps he gave out is the same no matter what kind of mods you have on the car. Do no forget about that he does not have the Power Excel software. He is pretty much doing the same thing you can do and charge you $300 by hiding the fact that everyone can do what he does with the power fc. He made a lot of profit by making people think that he is a Power Excel dealer, he has a in-house dyno, and he has the Power Excel software. Well too bad, the bubble finally bursts; the truth comes out. He has no more than what we all have: a commander and the power FC unit.
I encourage you to visit his so-called "shop" and check out all the claims he is making. You will soon realize what you "see and hear" is not really what it is and what you "think" is not what it is. Welcome to the REAL WORLD!
Fact 1: Ray lied about being the Power Excel dealer. At least about the requirement of being one. One of the requirement of being a Power Excel dealer is having a in-house dyno. Ray DOES NOT have one. He is running his business in his house. Do you think the city hall will let him have a dyno in the residential area? As long as he is still running his business in his house, garage, whatever, he will not have a dyno and he shouldn't be qualified as a Power Excel dealer. Rotary Porformance (rx7.com) has an in-house dyno. They are selling power FC's on their website now but they are not a Power Excel dealer. rx7.com seems more qualified. Can APEX explain why this is?
Fact2: Ray constantly undermined other RX-7 vendors' businesses by spreading rumors and bashing them on the rx7 mailing list. I was a victim before I sold my business. I believed Jason from RX-7 store was bashed by him badly about 2 years ago on the mailing list along with a lot of his followers or believers who did not know what really was going on.
Fact3: He does not have any business ethics. The power FC remapping charge is a joke and a scam. I have compared his maps which were posted on the forum with the base map. There is almost no difference except he retards the leading timing by 2, 4, 6 degrees within a range of cells. By looking at how much he retards the timing and how he enriches the map, you can tell it's not tuned on the dyno. He does not have a in-house dyno so I am wondering where his dyno-tuned claim is coming from. I am pretty sure all the maps he gave out is the same no matter what kind of mods you have on the car. Do no forget about that he does not have the Power Excel software. He is pretty much doing the same thing you can do and charge you $300 by hiding the fact that everyone can do what he does with the power fc. He made a lot of profit by making people think that he is a Power Excel dealer, he has a in-house dyno, and he has the Power Excel software. Well too bad, the bubble finally bursts; the truth comes out. He has no more than what we all have: a commander and the power FC unit.
I encourage you to visit his so-called "shop" and check out all the claims he is making. You will soon realize what you "see and hear" is not really what it is and what you "think" is not what it is. Welcome to the REAL WORLD!
09-21-01, 11:56 AM
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Ray lockhead is the biggest scammer and rip-off artist around..he is very deceptive and bullshits alot to get business..
i highly doubt he got 544 rwhp from 19psi, dont let him fool you thinking that this is even remotely possible for any average consumer looking for parts at his website
laughable ...
Steve
i highly doubt he got 544 rwhp from 19psi, dont let him fool you thinking that this is even remotely possible for any average consumer looking for parts at his website
laughable ...
Steve
09-21-01, 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by rotaryextreme
I encourage you to visit his so-called "shop" and check out all the claims he is making. You will soon realize what you "see and hear" is not really what it is and what you "think" is not what it is. Welcome to the REAL WORLD!
I encourage you to visit his so-called "shop" and check out all the claims he is making. You will soon realize what you "see and hear" is not really what it is and what you "think" is not what it is. Welcome to the REAL WORLD!
Why would someone buy a 'tuned' P-FC if they don't let the 'tuner' put their car on the dyno to tune it? There is a big difference in 'street ported' motors I have seen, how can he say you will get a tuned map for your car unless it is on a dyno.
As far as his dyno goes, that is a good deal of power on pump fuel from a 2 rotor. Maybe he is using the 76 100 octane pump fuel.
09-21-01, 10:29 PM
#13
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I tried very hard not to reply to this thread. Ray has never been anything but straightforward, and honest in all my dealings with him. All of the maps he has provided for PFC's I have installed were exactly as described: set up for the components in question, and tuned slightly rich for later refinement on the dyno. Furthermore, Ray has always been straightforward with the fact that his dyno is located off premises. I don't live in CA, but it really pisses me off that people who live even further away than I, and who have never had an in depth conversation with him, or have any base to judge his character, choose to bash his reputation. I won't lower myself to counter any specific comments. Gawd, it is a good thing there are no lawyers on here. Here is how Ray's shop is set up, as described by a very good friend who LIVES nearby, right here in our very own country: Ray has a large property with a house and a LARGE professional shop located on the same property. I considered building our new shop on my property. I can't list the shops I know of set up like this on two hands, yet I don't see any other shops being bashed on this thread. I guess family owned businesses are a bad thing on this thread? Previous posts would have you believe he is working out of his basement or an attached garage. Please don't try to argue that it was worded to appear any differently. Yes, I made a call to a friend in CA at 11:30 on a Friday night to find out for myself. Have any of you been to his house/shop as you call it to make these comments?
Ray has always had good common sense advice; even sharing some of his 'secrets' at times. He has never exaggerated any claims about any of his products that I have either used myself or installed for others. I have never been charged for a PFC reprogramming; if you buy it from him, it is free. WTF? Ray is also very knowledgeable with the Electromotive TEC, and unlike many other tuners, he is willing to share his expertise. Others, like Peter Farrel, will tell you to change your entire set-up to match thier cookie cutter program approach so you can use their program with their specified injector size. Ray has talked me out of many stupid decisions with my cars in the past. Ray has unsuccessfully tried to talk me out of other decisions, many of which I regret now. Even though I did not fully follow his advice in some setups, HE STILL PROVIDED SUPPORT. EVEN WHEN I PURCHASED THOSE COMPONENTS FROM OTHER VENDORS.
For the record, I purchase equipment from many vendors: Jason, SRX7, RP, M2, and more. I find them all to be very polite, and honest. Just because you have some particular patriotism for your particular vendor does not mean you should bash every other vendor. That is complete BS. Our community thrives as it does today because of the open communication between all of the owners and vendors.
Instead, why not ask how he achieved those numbers with those components (you can bet I will call and ask Monday). Ask for more proof. Whatever. I have seen the biggest farces, the largest of lies, exaggeration of HP beyond what I thought a person's conscience could ever allow. Whatever... I lost respect for a lot of people on this thread.
Ray has no reason to lie. His track record speaks for itself. Would you give the same response if Ari had posted those numbers? Someone would, and most likely a completely different group than those that replied to this thread. I have always kept my opinions to myself on here, so I hope those that know my threads respect that I am really offended by the nature of this thread.
Maybe KKK turbos are the secret to huge f-ing numbers on rotaries. I am about pissed off enough to buy one and find out.
Let he who has not completely lied about his horsepower cast the first stone.
Ray has always had good common sense advice; even sharing some of his 'secrets' at times. He has never exaggerated any claims about any of his products that I have either used myself or installed for others. I have never been charged for a PFC reprogramming; if you buy it from him, it is free. WTF? Ray is also very knowledgeable with the Electromotive TEC, and unlike many other tuners, he is willing to share his expertise. Others, like Peter Farrel, will tell you to change your entire set-up to match thier cookie cutter program approach so you can use their program with their specified injector size. Ray has talked me out of many stupid decisions with my cars in the past. Ray has unsuccessfully tried to talk me out of other decisions, many of which I regret now. Even though I did not fully follow his advice in some setups, HE STILL PROVIDED SUPPORT. EVEN WHEN I PURCHASED THOSE COMPONENTS FROM OTHER VENDORS.
For the record, I purchase equipment from many vendors: Jason, SRX7, RP, M2, and more. I find them all to be very polite, and honest. Just because you have some particular patriotism for your particular vendor does not mean you should bash every other vendor. That is complete BS. Our community thrives as it does today because of the open communication between all of the owners and vendors.
Instead, why not ask how he achieved those numbers with those components (you can bet I will call and ask Monday). Ask for more proof. Whatever. I have seen the biggest farces, the largest of lies, exaggeration of HP beyond what I thought a person's conscience could ever allow. Whatever... I lost respect for a lot of people on this thread.
Ray has no reason to lie. His track record speaks for itself. Would you give the same response if Ari had posted those numbers? Someone would, and most likely a completely different group than those that replied to this thread. I have always kept my opinions to myself on here, so I hope those that know my threads respect that I am really offended by the nature of this thread.
Maybe KKK turbos are the secret to huge f-ing numbers on rotaries. I am about pissed off enough to buy one and find out.
Let he who has not completely lied about his horsepower cast the first stone.
Last edited by Exit13B; 09-21-01 at 10:34 PM.
09-22-01, 02:09 AM
#14
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Exit13B
I do not care who posted those numbers, the facts are that there is no way you can make that RWHP or the 600+BHP I stated in my reply (it would have to be more than 600bhp) with a street port and at 6800rpm...end of story !
Regardless of turbo or any other *SECRET* crap dished out it is impossible to achieve with a 13B REW running std compression and air to air IC at those revs.
If you think differently of me than so be it, I know I can sleep straight at night knowing that I am not making a bullshit claim like that made by Ray.
Call me the police of rotary power figures or whatever you will, but I believe people should be made to prove there power figures when they are so far from the normal, not only that but when they start to defiy Mechanical Engineering and basic Thermodynamic laws then I for one will not accept bullshit like this to be posted regardless of who it is.
Remember what we know here
*NO nos
*STREET PORT
*19 PSI
*AIR to AIR IC (no other assistance)
*STOCK compression
*6800 rpm
*544 rwhp (over 600BHP)
THIS IS NOT ACHIEVABLE WITH THESE PARAMETERS!!!!!!!!!
I do not care who posted those numbers, the facts are that there is no way you can make that RWHP or the 600+BHP I stated in my reply (it would have to be more than 600bhp) with a street port and at 6800rpm...end of story !
Regardless of turbo or any other *SECRET* crap dished out it is impossible to achieve with a 13B REW running std compression and air to air IC at those revs.
If you think differently of me than so be it, I know I can sleep straight at night knowing that I am not making a bullshit claim like that made by Ray.
Call me the police of rotary power figures or whatever you will, but I believe people should be made to prove there power figures when they are so far from the normal, not only that but when they start to defiy Mechanical Engineering and basic Thermodynamic laws then I for one will not accept bullshit like this to be posted regardless of who it is.
Remember what we know here
*NO nos
*STREET PORT
*19 PSI
*AIR to AIR IC (no other assistance)
*STOCK compression
*6800 rpm
*544 rwhp (over 600BHP)
THIS IS NOT ACHIEVABLE WITH THESE PARAMETERS!!!!!!!!!
09-22-01, 02:58 AM
#15
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (2)
too emotional?
George:
Why are you so pissed? You are exactly one of those followers and believers I mentioned earlier in the post who do not know the facts before they talk. How do you know those people who talked about Ray never dealt with him? Is it possible that they are speaking from their own experience? Did they say anything about "Ray is bad, XXX is the best!!" (XXX as their favorite RX-7 vendor). Let me state all the "FACTS" again so you can get a clear scope of why in some of people's minds, Ray is not as good as you state.
From other vendors point of view, he is a bad person because he uses his unethical practice to undermine other people's business. The most obvious incident is the sales of POWER FC. He tried very hard to keep all the power fc sales to himself by stating that other than him, no one can sell the power fc because he is the authorized power FC excel dealer. Other vendors can get power fc's too, those so called "unauthorized power fc dealers". Trying to make all the profit he could on this hot item, he stated that he has the excel software to tune it. None of those "unauthorized dealers" has it. Opps. Now we find out he does not have it either. If he is not a liar then who is? Did he lie about having the software to keep all the sales to himself? Yes, he did. It's FACT so do not argue with your OPINION.
One of the requirement for being a power excel dealer is to have an in-house dyno. He does not have one but he makes people think he has one because it's one of the requirement. Let's play some logic game. You probably see those if you take LSAT or GMAT
Statement 1: Power Excel dealer must have a in-house dyno
Statement 2: Ray is a power Excel dealer
Conclusion: Ray must have an in-house dyno!!!
Yes, this simple logic fools a lot of people, including me until I met someone who visited him and found out he had no dyno. I do not care if he treats you well or not. Maybe he is so nice to you because you spent a lot of money with him. What he did is unethical PERIOD!, claiming something he does not have. Try to argue with this one. I need some practice with my critical thinking.
There is nothing wrong running your business from your house, apartment, garage, WHATEVER! But if you were one of the above and you were trying to damage other's credibility by stating that they are one of the above, then there is something wrong. He attacked other vendor's credibility on the rx-7 mailing list by stating they are not legit business because they ran their businesses inside an apartment, house, dorm, whatever. And now you know he is one of them. Ray does everything he can to hurt other people to gain profit from it. Ray v.s. M2. Ray v.s. RP. Want to hear more? Is it ethical to gain business by damaging other vendor's credibility? Maybe in your mind it is. In my mind and in the minds of the majority, it's not.
Power FC. He did not charge you a cent to tune it huh? Good for you!! He charged $350 to tune it. A lot of people knew about it and were charged. Ask them. He just recently lowered his price because he was losing so much business by charging the $350. Why did people stop paying for the $350? Because they found out they can get the maps on the RX-7 forum and they found out his map is not really tune to your spec. Use MS Excel and do some subtracting. Then you will see.
He still helps you out even though you buy from other vedors. What kind of statement is that? People from the forum will help you out even though you did not buy any **** from them!! Maybe all those people who have helped out others without charging a cent are ******* fools huh??
You said pepole shouldnt bash other vendors blah, blah, blah. Did you mention about PFS being a bad reputable vendor in your post?
I hate to see those followers or believers posting stuff on the forum. It's polluting the whole environment. By reading your post, I think you are probably one of Ray's alias. Dude, before you talk, please get all the info straight and get your logic together. You are slapping your own face if you are too emotinal and not getting your stuff together. I state facts, I do not state opinions. I do not care about opinions. I care about facts. Try to argue with facts. Good luck!
Why are you so pissed? You are exactly one of those followers and believers I mentioned earlier in the post who do not know the facts before they talk. How do you know those people who talked about Ray never dealt with him? Is it possible that they are speaking from their own experience? Did they say anything about "Ray is bad, XXX is the best!!" (XXX as their favorite RX-7 vendor). Let me state all the "FACTS" again so you can get a clear scope of why in some of people's minds, Ray is not as good as you state.
From other vendors point of view, he is a bad person because he uses his unethical practice to undermine other people's business. The most obvious incident is the sales of POWER FC. He tried very hard to keep all the power fc sales to himself by stating that other than him, no one can sell the power fc because he is the authorized power FC excel dealer. Other vendors can get power fc's too, those so called "unauthorized power fc dealers". Trying to make all the profit he could on this hot item, he stated that he has the excel software to tune it. None of those "unauthorized dealers" has it. Opps. Now we find out he does not have it either. If he is not a liar then who is? Did he lie about having the software to keep all the sales to himself? Yes, he did. It's FACT so do not argue with your OPINION.
One of the requirement for being a power excel dealer is to have an in-house dyno. He does not have one but he makes people think he has one because it's one of the requirement. Let's play some logic game. You probably see those if you take LSAT or GMAT
Statement 1: Power Excel dealer must have a in-house dyno
Statement 2: Ray is a power Excel dealer
Conclusion: Ray must have an in-house dyno!!!
Yes, this simple logic fools a lot of people, including me until I met someone who visited him and found out he had no dyno. I do not care if he treats you well or not. Maybe he is so nice to you because you spent a lot of money with him. What he did is unethical PERIOD!, claiming something he does not have. Try to argue with this one. I need some practice with my critical thinking.
There is nothing wrong running your business from your house, apartment, garage, WHATEVER! But if you were one of the above and you were trying to damage other's credibility by stating that they are one of the above, then there is something wrong. He attacked other vendor's credibility on the rx-7 mailing list by stating they are not legit business because they ran their businesses inside an apartment, house, dorm, whatever. And now you know he is one of them. Ray does everything he can to hurt other people to gain profit from it. Ray v.s. M2. Ray v.s. RP. Want to hear more? Is it ethical to gain business by damaging other vendor's credibility? Maybe in your mind it is. In my mind and in the minds of the majority, it's not.
Power FC. He did not charge you a cent to tune it huh? Good for you!! He charged $350 to tune it. A lot of people knew about it and were charged. Ask them. He just recently lowered his price because he was losing so much business by charging the $350. Why did people stop paying for the $350? Because they found out they can get the maps on the RX-7 forum and they found out his map is not really tune to your spec. Use MS Excel and do some subtracting. Then you will see.
He still helps you out even though you buy from other vedors. What kind of statement is that? People from the forum will help you out even though you did not buy any **** from them!! Maybe all those people who have helped out others without charging a cent are ******* fools huh??
You said pepole shouldnt bash other vendors blah, blah, blah. Did you mention about PFS being a bad reputable vendor in your post?
I hate to see those followers or believers posting stuff on the forum. It's polluting the whole environment. By reading your post, I think you are probably one of Ray's alias. Dude, before you talk, please get all the info straight and get your logic together. You are slapping your own face if you are too emotinal and not getting your stuff together. I state facts, I do not state opinions. I do not care about opinions. I care about facts. Try to argue with facts. Good luck!
09-22-01, 10:28 AM
#16
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another believer
Originally posted by Exit13B
I tried very hard not to reply to this thread. Ray has never been anything but straightforward, and honest in all my dealings with him. All of the maps he has provided for PFC's I have installed were exactly as described: set up for the components in question, and tuned slightly rich for later refinement on the dyno. Furthermore, Ray has always been straightforward with the fact that his dyno is located off premises. I don't live in CA, but it really pisses me off that people who live even further away than I, and who have never had an in depth conversation with him, or have any base to judge his character, choose to bash his reputation. I won't lower myself to counter any specific comments. Gawd, it is a good thing there are no lawyers on here. Here is how Ray's shop is set up, as described by a very good friend who LIVES nearby, right here in our very own country: Ray has a large property with a house and a LARGE professional shop located on the same property. I considered building our new shop on my property. I can't list the shops I know of set up like this on two hands, yet I don't see any other shops being bashed on this thread. I guess family owned businesses are a bad thing on this thread? Previous posts would have you believe he is working out of his basement or an attached garage. Please don't try to argue that it was worded to appear any differently. Yes, I made a call to a friend in CA at 11:30 on a Friday night to find out for myself. Have any of you been to his house/shop as you call it to make these comments?
Ray has always had good common sense advice; even sharing some of his 'secrets' at times. He has never exaggerated any claims about any of his products that I have either used myself or installed for others. I have never been charged for a PFC reprogramming; if you buy it from him, it is free. WTF? Ray is also very knowledgeable with the Electromotive TEC, and unlike many other tuners, he is willing to share his expertise. Others, like Peter Farrel, will tell you to change your entire set-up to match thier cookie cutter program approach so you can use their program with their specified injector size. Ray has talked me out of many stupid decisions with my cars in the past. Ray has unsuccessfully tried to talk me out of other decisions, many of which I regret now. Even though I did not fully follow his advice in some setups, HE STILL PROVIDED SUPPORT. EVEN WHEN I PURCHASED THOSE COMPONENTS FROM OTHER VENDORS.
For the record, I purchase equipment from many vendors: Jason, SRX7, RP, M2, and more. I find them all to be very polite, and honest. Just because you have some particular patriotism for your particular vendor does not mean you should bash every other vendor. That is complete BS. Our community thrives as it does today because of the open communication between all of the owners and vendors.
Instead, why not ask how he achieved those numbers with those components (you can bet I will call and ask Monday). Ask for more proof. Whatever. I have seen the biggest farces, the largest of lies, exaggeration of HP beyond what I thought a person's conscience could ever allow. Whatever... I lost respect for a lot of people on this thread.
Ray has no reason to lie. His track record speaks for itself. Would you give the same response if Ari had posted those numbers? Someone would, and most likely a completely different group than those that replied to this thread. I have always kept my opinions to myself on here, so I hope those that know my threads respect that I am really offended by the nature of this thread.
Maybe KKK turbos are the secret to huge f-ing numbers on rotaries. I am about pissed off enough to buy one and find out.
Let he who has not completely lied about his horsepower cast the first stone.
I tried very hard not to reply to this thread. Ray has never been anything but straightforward, and honest in all my dealings with him. All of the maps he has provided for PFC's I have installed were exactly as described: set up for the components in question, and tuned slightly rich for later refinement on the dyno. Furthermore, Ray has always been straightforward with the fact that his dyno is located off premises. I don't live in CA, but it really pisses me off that people who live even further away than I, and who have never had an in depth conversation with him, or have any base to judge his character, choose to bash his reputation. I won't lower myself to counter any specific comments. Gawd, it is a good thing there are no lawyers on here. Here is how Ray's shop is set up, as described by a very good friend who LIVES nearby, right here in our very own country: Ray has a large property with a house and a LARGE professional shop located on the same property. I considered building our new shop on my property. I can't list the shops I know of set up like this on two hands, yet I don't see any other shops being bashed on this thread. I guess family owned businesses are a bad thing on this thread? Previous posts would have you believe he is working out of his basement or an attached garage. Please don't try to argue that it was worded to appear any differently. Yes, I made a call to a friend in CA at 11:30 on a Friday night to find out for myself. Have any of you been to his house/shop as you call it to make these comments?
Ray has always had good common sense advice; even sharing some of his 'secrets' at times. He has never exaggerated any claims about any of his products that I have either used myself or installed for others. I have never been charged for a PFC reprogramming; if you buy it from him, it is free. WTF? Ray is also very knowledgeable with the Electromotive TEC, and unlike many other tuners, he is willing to share his expertise. Others, like Peter Farrel, will tell you to change your entire set-up to match thier cookie cutter program approach so you can use their program with their specified injector size. Ray has talked me out of many stupid decisions with my cars in the past. Ray has unsuccessfully tried to talk me out of other decisions, many of which I regret now. Even though I did not fully follow his advice in some setups, HE STILL PROVIDED SUPPORT. EVEN WHEN I PURCHASED THOSE COMPONENTS FROM OTHER VENDORS.
For the record, I purchase equipment from many vendors: Jason, SRX7, RP, M2, and more. I find them all to be very polite, and honest. Just because you have some particular patriotism for your particular vendor does not mean you should bash every other vendor. That is complete BS. Our community thrives as it does today because of the open communication between all of the owners and vendors.
Instead, why not ask how he achieved those numbers with those components (you can bet I will call and ask Monday). Ask for more proof. Whatever. I have seen the biggest farces, the largest of lies, exaggeration of HP beyond what I thought a person's conscience could ever allow. Whatever... I lost respect for a lot of people on this thread.
Ray has no reason to lie. His track record speaks for itself. Would you give the same response if Ari had posted those numbers? Someone would, and most likely a completely different group than those that replied to this thread. I have always kept my opinions to myself on here, so I hope those that know my threads respect that I am really offended by the nature of this thread.
Maybe KKK turbos are the secret to huge f-ing numbers on rotaries. I am about pissed off enough to buy one and find out.
Let he who has not completely lied about his horsepower cast the first stone.
From now on every time crispeed dyno some of the cars i would do the best to video the dyno #s and boost meter and show it here on the forum like he did with his race car...
09-22-01, 12:33 PM
#18
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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In the paperwork I have reviewed for Power Excel criteria, I believe the language is ACCESS to a dyno. Even MOTEC defines their requirements in this manner. FURTHERMORE, the Power Excel program is not limited to ECU’s. The Power Excel program allows a shop to promote Apexi products within its area of expertise. There are Power Excel dealers that only tune suspension, and thus do not require a dyno.
I'm not an ally of any shop. What I cannot stand to see is a one sided argument bashing a vendor over technicalities, and witnessing a by-standing forum member’s opinion sway. How many others are being affected that are smart enough not to reply; how many are forming opinions about Ray because 2 or 3 people seem to have a personal issue with him.
What angers me the most is that this thread started with someone saying “Hey, wow, look at these numbers!” Followed by “Sweet, on pump gas, too”…. And then the vultures arrive. This is why I stopped sharing my experience and knowledge on some of the other immature lists. This is why I am considering leaving this list. It does not belong here. I am wrong for replying with personal opinions, and certainly never will do so again in any other thread.
Boostedrx7: Good idea about the video. I bet someone could get one from Ray if they asked nice.
For all those wasting thier time reading this, I just wanted to set the record straight about Ray's shop setup, since I felt these people were creating an un-fair and inaccurate image of it. Don't follow the sheep! Form your own opionions based on you own experience and act accordingly!!!!
I'm not an ally of any shop. What I cannot stand to see is a one sided argument bashing a vendor over technicalities, and witnessing a by-standing forum member’s opinion sway. How many others are being affected that are smart enough not to reply; how many are forming opinions about Ray because 2 or 3 people seem to have a personal issue with him.
What angers me the most is that this thread started with someone saying “Hey, wow, look at these numbers!” Followed by “Sweet, on pump gas, too”…. And then the vultures arrive. This is why I stopped sharing my experience and knowledge on some of the other immature lists. This is why I am considering leaving this list. It does not belong here. I am wrong for replying with personal opinions, and certainly never will do so again in any other thread.
Boostedrx7: Good idea about the video. I bet someone could get one from Ray if they asked nice.
For all those wasting thier time reading this, I just wanted to set the record straight about Ray's shop setup, since I felt these people were creating an un-fair and inaccurate image of it. Don't follow the sheep! Form your own opionions based on you own experience and act accordingly!!!!
09-22-01, 12:44 PM
#19
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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A few more things..
Riceracing: I fully respect what you are saying. Your points are well taken. BUT since you are using science as your foundation, why not ask for science in defense? The Q factors involved in the response of some mechanical systems allows for strange and even unbelievable things to happen in nature, simply because the mathematical model we created for the system was not accurate! Being a scientist, I would ask for more proof instead of flaming the guy’s business practices. I am a huge skeptic myself, but what I was defending was not the numbers, but the unfair attack that ensued as a result of these people’s skepticism. I, too, want to see proof. RR, I can understand why your results based on your experience create your doubt. Perhaps there is an element to the equation that we are all missing?
09-22-01, 01:27 PM
#20
rotary sensei
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Originally posted by Exit13B
In the paperwork I have reviewed for Power Excel criteria, I believe the language is ACCESS to a dyno. Even MOTEC defines their requirements in this manner. FURTHERMORE, the Power Excel program is not limited to ECU’s. The Power Excel program allows a shop to promote Apexi products within its area of expertise. There are Power Excel dealers that only tune suspension, and thus do not require a dyno.
I'm not an ally of any shop. What I cannot stand to see is a one sided argument bashing a vendor over technicalities, and witnessing a by-standing forum member’s opinion sway. How many others are being affected that are smart enough not to reply; how many are forming opinions about Ray because 2 or 3 people seem to have a personal issue with him.
What angers me the most is that this thread started with someone saying “Hey, wow, look at these numbers!” Followed by “Sweet, on pump gas, too”…. And then the vultures arrive. This is why I stopped sharing my experience and knowledge on some of the other immature lists. This is why I am considering leaving this list. It does not belong here. I am wrong for replying with personal opinions, and certainly never will do so again in any other thread.
Boostedrx7: Good idea about the video. I bet someone could get one from Ray if they asked nice.
For all those wasting thier time reading this, I just wanted to set the record straight about Ray's shop setup, since I felt these people were creating an un-fair and inaccurate image of it. Don't follow the sheep! Form your own opionions based on you own experience and act accordingly!!!!
In the paperwork I have reviewed for Power Excel criteria, I believe the language is ACCESS to a dyno. Even MOTEC defines their requirements in this manner. FURTHERMORE, the Power Excel program is not limited to ECU’s. The Power Excel program allows a shop to promote Apexi products within its area of expertise. There are Power Excel dealers that only tune suspension, and thus do not require a dyno.
I'm not an ally of any shop. What I cannot stand to see is a one sided argument bashing a vendor over technicalities, and witnessing a by-standing forum member’s opinion sway. How many others are being affected that are smart enough not to reply; how many are forming opinions about Ray because 2 or 3 people seem to have a personal issue with him.
What angers me the most is that this thread started with someone saying “Hey, wow, look at these numbers!” Followed by “Sweet, on pump gas, too”…. And then the vultures arrive. This is why I stopped sharing my experience and knowledge on some of the other immature lists. This is why I am considering leaving this list. It does not belong here. I am wrong for replying with personal opinions, and certainly never will do so again in any other thread.
Boostedrx7: Good idea about the video. I bet someone could get one from Ray if they asked nice.
For all those wasting thier time reading this, I just wanted to set the record straight about Ray's shop setup, since I felt these people were creating an un-fair and inaccurate image of it. Don't follow the sheep! Form your own opionions based on you own experience and act accordingly!!!!
09-23-01, 12:45 AM
#23
Hey Buddies!
We should be more concerned with the events that the country and the world for that matter are dealing with presently!
Who gives a **** how much horsepower someone made at a certain boost. More power to that individual!
The point is that in this buisness with every shop there's gonna be good and bad stories about customer satisfaction. Everybody are going to have different opinions and experiences when dealing with certain individuals and everybody are also allowed to express their opinions freely about the matter. We all should respect each others opinion and don't judge each other based on just that alone!
If Ray is making a claim give him time to back it up and show some proof! If his claim is true then he should not have any problems duplicating it for his customers! Also we all could only benefit if it's true!
Now for my opinion on the matter--> I personaly don't believe his claim based on what I've experienced personaly and also after looking at the dyno results posted on his web site! But then again anything is possible in these times of great innovations. We all learn something new everyday!
crispeed
87TII
9.20@150mph
650RWHP/520RWTQ
T-72
2600lbs
We should be more concerned with the events that the country and the world for that matter are dealing with presently!
Who gives a **** how much horsepower someone made at a certain boost. More power to that individual!
The point is that in this buisness with every shop there's gonna be good and bad stories about customer satisfaction. Everybody are going to have different opinions and experiences when dealing with certain individuals and everybody are also allowed to express their opinions freely about the matter. We all should respect each others opinion and don't judge each other based on just that alone!
If Ray is making a claim give him time to back it up and show some proof! If his claim is true then he should not have any problems duplicating it for his customers! Also we all could only benefit if it's true!
Now for my opinion on the matter--> I personaly don't believe his claim based on what I've experienced personaly and also after looking at the dyno results posted on his web site! But then again anything is possible in these times of great innovations. We all learn something new everyday!
crispeed
87TII
9.20@150mph
650RWHP/520RWTQ
T-72
2600lbs
09-23-01, 04:56 AM
#24
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Re: A few more things..
Originally posted by Exit13B
Riceracing: I fully respect what you are saying. Your points are well taken. BUT since you are using science as your foundation, why not ask for science in defense? The Q factors involved in the response of some mechanical systems allows for strange and even unbelievable things to happen in nature, simply because the mathematical model we created for the system was not accurate! Being a scientist, I would ask for more proof instead of flaming the guy’s business practices. I am a huge skeptic myself, but what I was defending was not the numbers, but the unfair attack that ensued as a result of these people’s skepticism. I, too, want to see proof. RR, I can understand why your results based on your experience create your doubt. Perhaps there is an element to the equation that we are all missing?
Riceracing: I fully respect what you are saying. Your points are well taken. BUT since you are using science as your foundation, why not ask for science in defense? The Q factors involved in the response of some mechanical systems allows for strange and even unbelievable things to happen in nature, simply because the mathematical model we created for the system was not accurate! Being a scientist, I would ask for more proof instead of flaming the guy’s business practices. I am a huge skeptic myself, but what I was defending was not the numbers, but the unfair attack that ensued as a result of these people’s skepticism. I, too, want to see proof. RR, I can understand why your results based on your experience create your doubt. Perhaps there is an element to the equation that we are all missing?
Maybe I am missing something? ... I understand your responce now.
I guess that I am confident in what I am stating, and regardless of random results and giving extra compensations for certain parameters, his numbers are still a very long way off (in my & others calculations).
I take back what I said about him, however I still do not see how in my own (some would say vast) knowledge of thermodynamics of RE/turbo systems that such a power output is achievable.
Again, I would like to state that these are simply my own opinions and regret making personal comments towards the person in question. Regardless of how "HOLLYWOOD" the numbers may seem with the information forwarded to us, there is no excuse for personal attacks.