I'm finally about to jump up to the big dogs, before I make my decision I need some info though. I'm trying to make around 400-450whp on my single setup while still maintaining drivability aka no horribly long lag times. Out of these turbos which would be best suited for my goals - garret to4e .84 a/r undivided turbine. 50 trim compressor wheel with 3 inch inlet, garret to4r .70 AR compressor side with a 1.0 hotside, and maybe a gt35r...not sure on specs yet. Which one of these turbo setups would be good for my application. I have new motor with 12k miles on it, 550/1200cc injectors, walboro 255 fuel pump, apexi power fc, exedy twinplate clutch, M2 Large SMIC, highflow cat (may switch to midpipe), and greddy power extreme catback. Just to recap I want a streetable (not rediculously long lag times aka 5000rpm full boost or anything close to that) 400-450whp on stockported engine. If possible please give me an estimate on spool time if you have experience with any of these setups. Thanks in advance.

 

On stock ports with my gt35 @15lbs I made 380 had to stop tuning because I wire got ripped. I would say get with a-spec they now how a divided t4 gt35r that i think would suit your needs perectly. spool time... I had full boost by 3500

Chris

 

Comparing a "TO4E .84 with a 50 comp" and and a "TO4R 1.0 with a .70 comp" is apples and oranges. Also 550/1200cc is not enough injector for 450rwhp.
-J

p.s. You have an M2 large SMIC?.....Man those are rare how did you get it?

 

450whp is not necessary, I also still have another set of 850cc injectors that I could upgrade my primaries to if needed. I honestly just want to get to 400whp and I'd be more then happy. The three turbos are completely different...I realize that but that is what I'm working with right now. Thanks for the input...keep them coming please.

 

I made 386 rwhp on stock ports with a gt40r on 15psi, 400 is capable, just takes some tuning. I had 10psi by probably 4200 rpm and that was with a large exhaust housing, 1.06.

-Austin

 

I think I'm leaning towards the garret to4e .84 a/r undivided turbine. 50 trim compressor wheel with 3 inch inlet because of my stock ports. My question is would I still be able to achieve my 400whp goal with this setup? O and from what the guy was telling me this turbo is dual ballbearing which should help out substantially for drivability.

 

I used a 40r with .85 back on my stock ports. I do not remember the lower boost amount but it made 430 around 19psi. I went this way as it left room to grow. It seems everyone wants more power sooner or later. So I always sugest running something that gets you were you want to be but has more power left to be pulled later when wanted..

 

I'm not sure 400rwhp is doable on a 50 trim. I believe I was close once at 23psi on one. However it requires you to really fine tune your complete setup, and really tune the engine to the edge. Definitely requires water/methanol injection, ignition upgrades, very smooth free flowing intake, exhaust, and charge-piping, along with a well built motor( even its a stock port, just a well built engine, not your used rotor housings low compression bs). You're going to need a much bigger turbine housing with that compressor to make 400rwhp. Exhaust restriction costs power. The " highflow" cat is also going to hurt power and spool time. So unless you want a really loud car I would just suggest you use something in the middle ground between a 50 trim and a to4R.

 

Very good point. Thanks for this advice. I'm now leaning more towards to4r, but really want the gt35r (I just can't find the right deal on one right now). I will most likely switch to a midpipe instead of keeping the highflow cat to help spooltime. My motor is brand new (have the reciepts to prove it lol), so I'm not worried about that part at all. Just as a reference on my nonsequential turbos I get full boost 14psi at around 3600-4000 on very hot days...and 3000rpm rpm right now on cooler days. Keep the suggestions coming guys.

 

Seriously, receipts don't mean anything. Do a compression test. I see a car almost every two weeks with a " fresh" engine that is a complete half assed monkey rebuild. You know what really scares people is when I tell them in the past two years, I have only rebuilt engines that are fresh from other shops.

I deal with 50 trim turbos a lot, so I'm not talking out of my *** either. I would highly recommend staying away from a To4R if you don't like "lag". Don't fool yourself either, you can't make mis-match a big compressor wheel with a small turbo housing in effect to get the best of both worlds( big power, low boost-threshold) I would just stick with a middle of the pack turbo unless you have the patience to maximize every part of the system.

Really you should just wait until you can afford to do it right the first time, its cost a lot more in the end to cut corners and do things 2, 3 or 4 times.

 

Truth right there. My deflated wallet can attest to that!!!

 

Thanks guys for all the advice, I finally decided and bought a GT35R kit. T3 GT35r Turbo 70trim compressor 1.06 ceramic coated hotside, polished cold side ceramic coated manifold, PSR 45mm wastegate (rerouted back to downpipe), and 3 inch downpipe (it arrived today). I also decided I might as well replace my 550cc injectors with my spare set of 850cc injectors. The only thing I have left to get is an hks twinpower. I can't wait to put this thing on and get it tuned (in between school and work...its extremely hard to find some spare time)!!! Once again, thanks for all the advice...I will be visiting here more often now .

 

My R85 kit is for sale. On stock ports it made 406whp on 16lbs of boost...

 

What’s the recommended setup to do 450rwhp today on stock ports and no aux injection.

EFR8374 or G35-900?

 

it’d be much better to street port it, but if it’s an existing engine in good condition then it’s understandable that you might be resistant to tearing it down. However, refreshing it likely serves a positive purpose.

here’s a past reference 8374 stock port thread to study, but on pump gas without AI the 1.05 EWG should likely be considered instead:

https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo...sults-1118515/

there’s not a G35-900 thread to reference that I know of, but with the 1.06 div T4 EWG it should meet your goal imo.
.

 

"What’s the recommended setup to do 450rwhp today on stock ports and no aux injection."

you are planning to run a 500 rwhp (8374) or 600 rwhp (G35-900) turbo on pump gas and NO AI???

a good plan is to fixture your setup so it that it accommodates max output from your turbo. that means injector capacity and AI.

you will encounter bad gas and perhaps a sticking wastegate. i have logs showing boost rising 10 psi in less than a second..

it is not a good idea to assume you are never going to have a sticking wastegate etc etc.

all you need is a simple inexpensive AEM system and 500 cc of water. knock damage is avoided as well as the engine internals being close to carbon free.

sure it is a pain but it is just reality in rotaryland.

just as essential is a map that zeros timing to ZERO in response to knock

question to all reading this post... does your map zero timing .

 

There isn't any recommended setup for 450rwhp approx 500hp that is proven to work or is draggy verified that i know of on a stock port engine with no aux injection.

That being said I have seen (for a very short engine life span) rob dahm tune his stock port 13b rotary vette using e85 and Gt3584rs turbo. He made an approx 450rwhp at 28psi. The next video the motor blew up and he rebuilt it as a street port (balanced and studded). Either way because of stock port you will need to crank up the boost to make a true 500hp and it wont be easy. Ask me how i know....been chasing a true 450rwhp (500hp FD) for the past few years using draggy to measure real world performance without breaking the bank. Have a read through my thread and you'll see.

I run a street port (balanced and studded) with a G35 1050 and it made a true 450rwhp (approx 500hp) at 1.4bar on a local dyno. Although the dyno operator said it was 500RWHP and to this day swears by it. The 100-200 was in the 6.5-6.6s range which confirms it is a true 450rwhp (approx 500hp) and not 500RWHP. On a stock port i say this very loosely Rob needed another 8psi of boost (on a similar size turbo) to run 450rwhp.

Basically you wont make a true 450rwhp (approx 500hp) on stock port unless you have very high quality supporting mods, run E85 and even if you do...if the engine is not studded and balanced it is going to become a ticking time-bomb and will fail eventually.

 

If you want a true 450rwhp (500hp) FD (As documented in the RX7 13B Draggy 100-200km/h leader board)
As a bare bones minimum you need:
1. Large street port engine, studded and balanced.

2. G35-1050 1.21 ar with pump fuel and 50/50 wmi can do it with 20psi approx 1.4bar. Draggy proven to run into the 6.6s 100-200km/h range.

3. Steve's large street ported efr 8374 also ran a very impressive 6.26s 100-200km/h at 22pi...with less boost you can run into the 450rwhp range.

I hope this helps.

(A non draggy verified result iirc was a G35-900 streetport using E85 fuel running 27-28psi to make approx 450-460rwhp. This was achieved on Collette Davis's S15 13b swap drift car. Not sure why it needed soo much additional boost than me or steve but there you are. There is no 100-200 draggy verified run so take this result with a pinch of salt)

 

lots of talk re ports.

IMO the 13BREW has pretty good secondary ports. unlike the dreadful primary ports, i do not significantly reshape the secondaries. i do enlarge them a bit to create an earlier open and later close. much of my secondary work is to alter port timing.

OTOH, the primary ports are flat horrible... the size of your thumbnail... if you have really big thumbs. a close inspection shows they were initially cast fairly well and then someone said pump the brakes. as a result, you are driving around with very restrictive ports... less MPG, higher IAT and of course much less flow when the pedal is to the metal. a Significantly up-tuned primary also creates a better balance of directional flow towards the rotor. if the primary is un-touched most of the flow comes from one side of the rotor. i have zero basis for my view that flow should be better balanced from both sides of the rotor but i am sticking to it.

happy motors are less restricted motors and that applies all the time the motor is running not just top tick power.

as to power, the objective is to make as much as you can at lower boost levels. if you do that higher boost will take care of itself.

my experience is that a properly engineered system should make 500 rwhp at 20 psi. if you are not there and you have enough turbo your system is not optimised.

 

The Cosmo primary port opening size is part of the answer there. It extends the OE FD3 primary port by ~1/2” taller to have the same height as the FD3 secondary port.

I had copper intake gaskets made for that Cosmo-FD3 port combination rather than fuss around trying to modify the OE metal gasket. As to be expected, it then also needs to be addressed on the intake manifold primary runner size and port matching as well to gain the full advantage.

But likely more than the person who bumped the thread is looking to do; just adding to Howard’s point for information purposes.
.

 

Incase anyone is curious.

Going to the taller cosmo ports makes 0 difference in HP.

I have done a direct back to back on this and it did **** **** all. lol

Of course maybe at higher power levels there would likely be a scenario where it would make a difference but I tested at just over 700HP and there was no changes in the curve anywhere that I could see. It seems the limitation of airflow is at the port face rather than the runner height.

 

What are the other details though?

Because I know you’ve stated the same thing about the factory vs. Xccessive LIM.
.

 

The 13B-REW is a refinement of the 13B-RE.

If you put the ports side by side you will see the 13B-RE port runner is LOWER than the REW, but the roof is the same.

Looks to me on the RE Mazda made room for the twin turbos by having a 45 deg inlet angle into a larger traditional straight/horizontal port runner where the bottom of the port runner trips the flow to turbulent flow to make the other 45 deg airflow has to bend.

The REW incorporated the other 45 deg into the port runner by raising the runner floor, so the dead space of the RE runner was not needed.

 

I’ll keep that in mind when I’m trying to make a 270 bhp emission compliant street engine along with all the other things Mazda didn’t do on their production engine that are done here in this forum area.
.

 

What did you want to know?

Streetport
GT4202R
E85
This car had Cosmo, FD and FD with excessive