REsuper7

iTrader: (4)

I just got back from getting my car dyno'd for the first time since the engine was rebuilt. I walked away with 352whp @14psi on my Street Ported GT35R T3 hotside set up. Is this on par for my set up? Or is the power being limited by some problem i need to fix?

Background:
I picked up this car a month ago. The previous owner had the engine completely rebuilt along with a new GT35R turbo since the last one ate an apex seal on the way out. The car was just broken in and had never been tuned. So the first thing i did was schedule a dyno tune. I haven't confirmed these parts, but here is a list of what the car came with:

Stage 3 motor build with aggressive street porting
GT35R Turbo W/Tial 44mm Wastegate
Rx-7 Store Xtreme Fuel Rail System (Bosch 1680cc secondary injectors, not sure what the primaries are, i'm assuming stock 550)
Greddy Front Mount Intercooler
Greddy Evo Exhaust
Bonez Hi-flow Cat (not connected since emissions were deleted)
HKS Blow Off Valve Welded to Greddy Pipes
Turbo XS Ignition AMP with NGK Plugs
Apexi Power FC W/commander
Greddy Profec Type-S Boost Controller
Walbro Fuel Pump (haven't confirmed the size)
Light weight pulleys Pettit Racing


My instructions to the tuner were: i'm not looking for a lot of HP, i just want something reliable and i'd be more than happy with 350whp (which i am). The main reason i'm posing this question is because i want to make sure that my car is running efficiently at 14psi as opposed to being limited by another potential problem. Based on searching multiple threads on GT35R dyno runs, i assumed my set up would net me close(r) to 400whp at 14psi. Please correct me if i'm wrong. The tuner didn't seem too surprised by the results and mentioned that if i wanted to hit 400whp, i'd probably have to go with a T4 hotside.

The dyno sheet shows the following pulls:

Blue: Boost Controller (low) set to 10psi
Red: Boost Controller (high) set to 14psi
Green: Boost Controller OFF. Boost limited by Wastegate Spring: 8psi



Thoughts? Feedback?

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

I'd say that you're smack dab in the middle of what one could expect.


I had one tuner in the Northeast tune my car at wastegate (approx 14psi) and his tune only resulted in 304whp. I got my car retuned about a month or two later and made 400whp at the same boost level.

This was done with a PT6265.

jmm8904

iTrader: (19)

Fendamonkey,

Could you say what the second tuner did different? Did you change out any hardware or was it just the tune that yielded the increase power. I'm curious because the first run has more aggressive AFRs if I'm reading the dyno graph right.

Thanks.

flaco

iTrader: (7)

350 14 psi sounds about right

RogueFab

iTrader: (2)

You need a bigger fuel pump ASAP! 255lph is about 10% above stock flow volume. You are exceeding the pump's capacity by about 30 HP already. Get a denso supra pump, they are good to around 450 at the wheels.

Hopefully you are still at 45psi fuel or more at 14psi charge and 8k... Do you know? What is your for set to?

Nice numbers though. Sounds like a good safe first tune!

flaco

iTrader: (7)

LOL a walbro 255 can push 450hp on pump gas .

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

the walbro 255 is good for about 450whp, supra TT good for about 500whp so he still has room to go with it.


as for the figures, remove the T3 snail and upgrade the exhaust and snail to a 1.06A/R T4 turbine housing. you should actually be in the neighborhood of 445whp at 14psi with a decent intake and exhaust in conjunction with a good tune. i'm a little boggled why people lately have been accepting of these figures from most any 35R, though there are a few variants the discrepancy between any of the subs shouldn't be 100whp lost. the T3 is a definite restriction for just about any single turbo on a rotary.

you actually will notice almost no drop in response versus the T3 small snail.

RogueFab

iTrader: (2)

Next time I will keep my mouth shut. A performance shop I trust has it posted on their webpage. My mistake. I guess I need to check multiple sources next time.


Nippondenso Supra Twin Turbo Fuel Pump | IRPerformance

"Product Description
The oem fuel pump out of a 94-98 MKIV Toyota Supra Twin Turbo. This fuel pump is a direct drop-in replacement for the stock RX-7 fuel pump and is capable of supporting 450hp. The stock fuel pump begins to fall behind past 320 rwhp. Can be used on stock to modified cars with no other modifications. Nippondenso quality speaks for its self.
"

EDIT: Typo in my earlier post (2 above this one). Should say "what is your FPR set to", not "for".

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

I would ask your tuner why he had the smoothing set on 5. If you want to post your map I could give you your opinion on timing at least. I wouldn't say it's low power, would just say it's conservative for timing, fuel, or both.

Clubuser

hot dang!!! does that apply also to a ported S4 TII?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

should be close to the same figures, the low compression ratio S4 turbo engine will be a bit less responsive in the low to midrange but peak power figures will still be in that neighborhood. but the lower CR engines are more forgiving.

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

If those AFRs are accurate (around 12) then you are running way too lean to be safe unless the timing is very retarded. I say that power is too low.
Looking at the power curves, they are not too healthy in the low and middle rpms. Maybe some restriction.

Is the cat used or not used? Not sure do this this: "Bonez Hi-flow Cat (not connected since emissions were deleted". Are you referring to the air pipe not connected as this would not affect power.

I made 350 whp at 14.5 psi with stock ports and non-seq twins but with a MP.
See attachment. I changed to GT35R 1.06 T3 back in 2004.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i missed the part about having a HF cat(again).. but a decent cat should still only be pulling about 10% peak power from the curve, so it should be in the neighborhood of 400whp with a decent tune if the turbo was setup properly with the T4 snail.

killalot13601

iTrader: (5)

-very small exhaust housing

-running lean which probably means conservative ignition timing

Just my opinion, experienced tuner here.

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

The first tune was just complete and utter crap (the ignition was stupidly retarded, the fuel "curves" had more right angles than curves, the map was all over the place, etc., etc), where as the second one was more of what one would expect when you pay for a tune.

My point was mostly just that the tuner will have as much, if not more, to do with an engines power as the components themselves can. I posted up that comparison to illustrate the point with a 100whp spread at the same psi on the same setup.

REsuper7

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for all the feedback, although it sounds like half are saying 350whp at 14psi is just about right for a GT35R T3 hotside and the other half are saying i should expect more with my current set up. I'm not actually looking to make over 400whp (for now at least), so i don't have any plans to upgrade the turbo. I just want to make sure that i'm maximizing the efficiency of my setup, and if 352whp @ 14psi is what is expected for this setup, then great.

Are you saying that i should be at 445whp with my current T3 snail, or are you saying i would be at 445whp if i upgraded to T4 snail? If the latter, does that mean you also think 350whp is about right for a GT35R with a T3 snail at 14psi?

I have a copy of the PowerFC map that i can upload later tonight so you can take a look at the details of the tune (i'm pretty ignorant when it comes to this stuff, so i have a lot to learn).

The air pipe for the HF Cat is NOT connected. I just mentioned it in case someone thought i was still running with full emissions equipment. The dyno sheet you posted was for your non-seq twins? If so, how much hp were you making after switching to the GT35R T3 setup?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

saying if you upgraded the snail to a T4 and ditched the cat you could pick up about another hundred horses.

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

My GT35R is a 1.06 T3. No cats.
Right after the conversion with initial tuning, it dynode at only 375 whp at 14 psi but it was not smooth and Sam (owner of the shop) said it looked/sounded like the Crane amp was going bad. Testing proved he was correct. Changed to a HKS twin power with NGK Mazda race plugs, and other small improvements, along with retuning. Never been on a dyno since then but the engine has definitely got stronger. At 16 psi it easily put down a 426 hp new Camaro SS/RS, and has impressed some bikers. Currently running 17 psi with WI going to 18. According to A-Spec at 16 psi it should make about 406 whp with stock ports at 16 psi.

That dyno run was one month before I started my single conversion with the same Crane IGN amp. See how spiky it was. Caused by light ignition miss.

REsuper7

iTrader: (4)

here's the link to my PFC map file

btw, how do i tell what A/R my T3 snail is? I tried looking at it today to see if i could find any markings, but i can't find anything with the turbo mounted.

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

That map is junk. Looks like someone had no clue what they were doing and attempted to tune with the commander, making wholesale changes via the PIM inj adjustments.

Looks like the default timing map, with the typical negative split areas, and a super crappy fuel map correction map. Running 14 psi and leaving it on boost setting 1 you are about to hit fuel cut and your idle settings have been jacked to 1000rpm for no reason. There are major problems all over the place.

The only thing I can say positive about that map is that the fan temps were lowered, even that is a little too low.

I would not push the car until you get it to someone that knows what they are doing.

With the T3 GT35R at 14psi, with proper tuning, you should be right around 400whp, every dyno reads a little different.

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

Mother of god that thing is bad! If you want a good laugh look at the split in boost! It always pays to post your maps when asking questions and this just reinforces that...

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

It is the default 5.08 timing map. The really ridiculous part is that they took out 10% fuel in the entire high boost/rpm portion of the default correction map , then added in 10% fuel at 7000 & 8000 on the PIM injector adjust settings, negating those changes.

I will say that I do see a lot of similar garbage maps come in to our shop. It is no wonder there are so many people that go through multiple engines.

REsuper7

iTrader: (4)

Wow, this is really disheartening news. I paid good money at what I thought to be a reputable tuner...but now it's sounding like that was money/time down the drain.

On a side note, the car does appear to run super smooth and it idles decently at around 850-900, though it hunts slightly.

Looks like I'll have to search for another local tuner to get a second opinion...the sad thing is the shop that did my tune is one of the most reputable rotary shops in my area.

Btw, any idea how I can find out what the A/R of my T3 snail is without removing it?

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

^ give Speed1 a call and see if you can't arrange a tuning session with either Brian or Dave. It'll run ya $300 but it's WELL worth it, as they are friggin wizards when it comes to mapping. Hitting up S1 is well worth the drive.

I've had my car tuned by both Enzo and PFS. PFS is SIGNIFICANTLY closer to me than S1, but I'm to the point where that is the ONLY shop in the NE that I trust to turn wrenches or dyno my car now.

For your A/R, the hot side should have it stamped into the snail shell. Here is mine from when I got it, you can see the a/r size:

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

The T3 GT35R turbine housings are stamped on the inside.