planning on getting car tuned soon at 20 psi (if tuner can) on pump fuel (93) with a t4 td61 with billet wheel.
im running a devils own ai kit with a m2 pre turbo and a m10 post. 150 psi pump.
thinking of i should go with straight water or do a 50/50 mix by weight.
anyone running a similar setup with opinions?

 

Straight water is fine and readily available and you dont have to tune for it, you just tune as if it wasnt there.

 

Use straight M1 meth for power

 

I agree with the others; either working fluid is fine. However, After playing with a split configuaration for several years now, I suggest you consider staging the system. M5 & M10 nozzels the smaller one starting at 8 to 10 psi boost, activating the second stage at say 16# or so. I think this gives a better balance of spool vs protection.

 

should i even keep the m2 preturbo?

 

Well mine is setup pre/post and I've been experimenting with which location to bring on first. I'm okay with a pre turbo nozzle for my setup--but I'm still tryung to objectively evauate this.

 

I think Howard Colemans multi-year embarrassment has implied that this might not be the wisest decision to make...

I'm no pro, but I've observed that straight water is safe and effective, and WM50 (50% Distilled Water/50% Meth) by weight is safe. Ultimately WM50 would be the best bet.

I know his name seems to be a cuss word around here, but Peter (RiceRacing) is qualified and has done a LOT of research in the Alternate Injection world, especially pre-turbo, and he's found WM50 to be superior.

 

^^^ I disagree, I've been running it 2 years strong with no problem. I choose not to believe that water is superior until I see it for me self. I use to run 50/50 and it kept knock down, I switch over to M1 and not only it kept knock down but it helped top end and power increase by 10HP same psi, same dyno almost same out side temp.

 

I've never run straight meth, so I can't *really* comment on that. I just know that I've (unfortunately) lived vicariously through some other members that did and they kept blowing one engine after another. I do recall reading that a little bit of meth is a recipe for disaster, but it's not so bad if you're injecting LOTS of it.

Frankly I'd rather be safe than sorry, as distilled water is cheaper than dirt and can be had pretty much anywhere. WM50 is damned good and you're not likely to hurt anything if you run out of meth, and use water instead, when you're tuned for WM50. However I've also heard that the same isn't true if you're tuned for 100% meth.

I honestly don't doubt your claims in the slightest, you seem very competent. But for me, the relatively small gains (what is ~10whp when you're pushing an honest +450whp?) of straight M1 don't outweigh the potential problems. Hell, I could probably see a similar performance gain by going on a diet and losing 10lbs (which I *really* need to do... but that's neither here nor there, lol).

 

by wm50 u mean 50/50 by weight or volume? i plan on doing it by weight

 

By weight, sorry. Volume differs slightly on it, if I remember correctly 8 parts water and 10 parts meth, by volume, would be pretty damned close to 50/50 by weight.

 

methanol = slight power gain/less knock suppression
methanol/water = slightly less power gain/higher knock suppression
water only= superior knock suppression

take a guess what i suggest to my customers... yes some still opt for water/methanol but most choose water only when i ask if they want the best reliability. there's no point in using an AI system solely for alcohol, if you want to use it, put it in your damn fuel tank... it will mix with gasoline and be injected at a much more accurate rate.

why people think it is a good idea to inject a fuel into the engine via an unreliable delivery system is beyond me, just think about it for a bit.

most rotary tuners still will not tune to 20+ psi on pump gas, the risk is too high. i have, though it isn't a wise choice unless you did the install or are thorough in the vehicle inspection(the tuner).


that all said i will wash my hands of a car if someone told me they wanted AI installed to run pure alcohol. these days there are systems to auto calibrate maps based on alcohol content going through the primary fuel system, so why bother with all the bullshit. in fact, ethanol based hybrids have used this technology for over 15 years.

 

NACA tests from WWII.

Note the inlet air temp of 150*F for the knock limit tests.
Water is good to 20 psi.
Meth/ water to 30 psi.
None is safe for a rich 16 psi.

Rice finally changed from his "water-only" stance when he wanted to up the boost.
Howard changed his "meth-only" stance when pre-ignition problems started.
Barry

 

i agree with rotaryevolution (btw im on goopy seals too) i wanted to do 50/50 for not only alil more octane and the intake charge cooling benefit.

 

How many CC's total are you guys running at 20+ psi?

I'm running 660cc 50/50 w an HKS box and getting major breakup at anything under 11.5 afr above 10psi.

 

Im doing about 600cc worth