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Curious if anyone has had any issue with their hood rubbing on the UIM w/ excessive LIM, AND have any issues closing it?
I have to push down really hard on the front to get the hood to latch on the striker. Hood literally needs to be forced down to close and bends in the process. My paint actually cracked above the striker this evening.
I've emailed Shine about the UIM 2-3 weeks ago with no response. I originally thought the UIM was causing it not to close but I'm starting to think there's more going on.
Mine actually contacts the UIM as well. But only just barely. I have the factory LIM, though. I've blamed my contact on the Noltec motor mounts the previous owner had installed; since they are known to raise the engine height up from the factory position. Replacing the motor mounts is on my short list of things to do and once I do I don't think I will have the contact issue with the hood any more.
My hood also does 'bend' when closing it but I'm thinking it might not be as dramatic as yours from what you said.
I also have some quicklatch hood pins installed behind the headlights (they're hard to see but you can see them in the picture below) in addition to the OEM latch.
:edit: I wanted to add that when I first installed the hood it would not close/latch, even when trying to push down very hard. The vertical diameter (thickness) of the striker on the hood was too large for the catch on the the OEM latch. I had to grind the striker with a dremel and hand file in order to remove material and decrease the diameter of the striker. Took about 45 minutes but after doing that the hood closes/latches like it should. I measured the diameter before, throughout, and after with my digital calipers and by the end I reduced the striker diameter by approximately .7mm
Sorry guys, can't make up the rules on this one. Let's get it straight, only FEED aka Fujita Engineering makes this hood.
shine is imitation, copy-cat garbage. I will never support, nor recommend their so-called business as they act as modern-day thieves who steal designs from the REAL TUNER company's who forged this culture and industry we claim to love so much.
If we care about real jdm tuners like FEED, we will ban replica junk or suffer the consequence. Causality in effect. Just my opinion.
Sorry guys, can't make up the rules on this one. Let's get it straight, only FEED aka Fujita Engineering makes this hood.
shine is imitation, copy-cat garbage. I will never support, nor recommend their so-called business as they act as modern-day thieves who steal designs from the REAL TUNER company's who forged this culture and industry we claim to love so much.
If we care about real jdm tuners like FEED, we will ban replica junk or suffer the consequence. Causality in effect. Just my opinion.
While I agree with you on principle, one of the problems with this line of thinking is that there are a large number of companies that used to make awesome parts for our cars that are now no longer doing so. Either because they've moved on or gone out of business. Some may have some new-old-stock of pieces like this, but, they're rare. The amount of pieces produced by the companies are finite and as people destroy them or they are otherwise lost, become even more scarce. Companies like this keep designs alive and accessible for the future enthusiast. Purchasing the item second hand doesnt help the original manufacturer anyway. From the pieces I've seen here, they seem pretty good. There will probably come a point where nearly everything we buy for these things are "fake" through 3D printing and such. Whole interior plastics printed out for those who need them, or you do it yourself. If you're alright with having a "fake," I see no issue here, in this instance. New stuff, or current production stuff that someone blatantly rips off, bit of a different story. But it's a grey line, I think.
@cloud9 Damn. Now I have more reason to pick me up one of those. Your paint is beautiful. Those hood pins are perfect. I just dont think I could get one out here without paying international freight ugh.
If you're alright with having a "fake," I see no issue here, in this instance. New stuff, or current production stuff that someone blatantly rips off, bit of a different story. But it's a grey line, I think.
except that FEED still produces these hoods, so what Shine is doing is NOT ok in my opinion:
This struggle is an eternal one..
- Clothes
- Toys
- Cosmetics
- Shoes
- Handbags
- Pharmaceuticals
- Phones
- Jewelry/Watches
- Car parts
Supporting original creators is a wonderful thing, but I've only got one trip on this rock. There are no bonus points or extra time granted for fighting all of one's battles in the name of honor or virtue and sometimes you just want to get on with enjoying your hobby when the path of least resistance presents itself.
While this debate may never be settled, there are two things I know for sure:
• Your car is a work of art.
• Shine makes a quality product.
Being an introverted car enthusiast, especially in the rotary community, I feel is a beautiful thing. The ability to sit back and watch different people express their opinions one way or the other without being influenced by either is truly remarkable because I get to use this forum to find what it is aligns with my personal beliefs and press forward from there. I can avoid the V8 swap threads, avoid the “hot boi” threads, and read or contribute to the threads that keep these magnificent cars on the road. It’s almost like a religion if you think about it.
With that being said, I will say this. I will NEVER understand for the life of me why people feel the need to push their toxic opinions at the expense of other people/ companies. Now I’m not saying your opinion is toxic; your opinion is just your opinion. I agree with you to a very certain extent. We should be, within reason, celebrating and supporting the few companies that have survived this grueling industry by keeping their products in circulation. However...how did you even end of up in this thread to begin with? The delivery of said opinion is toxic, unwarranted, and honestly crude. I get what you’re saying and I feel that you have a strong foundation in your belief. But to get in the SHINE AUTO PROJECT thread and trash their products with no experience or even acute desire to even experience what this company represents is perplexing to me. Why not just let people buy what they want to buy?
Pretty sure there are zero royalties paid to any of the companies who have had their intellectual property stolen. Bare minimum would be to license these products; problem solved. I didn't think these small Japanese tuner companys' needed to have a patent on their in-house enthusiast parts.
I agree that there will always be lame people out there with shady business practices that reflect poorly on us but I think we can all agree that stealing is always wrong. Point blank, no way around it.
The normalization of something which is counterfeit in lieu of one that is genuine is a very threatening concept. The fact that there are many people willing to accept this is alarming.
its a difficult topic. there are valid points for both sides of the subject. i feel the middle ground is that we are all happy the parts are obtainable. although very clearly replica parts, at least shine makes an effort to improve on the design and make a quality rep. that sounds a little bit like an oxymoron but hopefully you get the point. when it comes to rare and discontinued parts, then reps are very much welcome since the demand is still there and people are happy to be able acquire these items. the alternative is to let that thing just be rare and discontinued and whoever has it, has it.
on the other side with parts that are being replicated AND still currently in production, its fair to say that is "stealing". at the same time though, samsung isnt the only company with a "smart tv". sitting back and waiting for other manufacturers to produce something that people want just so you can replicate it and sell it for less is wrong in principle and in practice. shine doesnt seem to be operating with that being their intent. looking deeper, FEED wants over 2000$ for a set of their fenders and thats not factoring in shipping or the time to get them from japan to anywhere in america.
shine is offering some of the things that we all want but otherwise wouldnt get for a relatively fair price considering what the real part costs in both time and money. this is a difficult subject and i stand in center on it. depending on the circumstance, i am for or against it. if FEED came out with a new hood tomorrow and shine had a rep ready to go within a month, thats not ok. people will still be lined up to buy it though. i think the real defense the tuning shops in japan have is to just not sell their parts to the people that buy them with the intent to replicate them and penalize the distributors that supply the people that do. i think that is entirely fair. this obviously wouldnt stop them from obtaining it, it would just make it harder.
although it would appear they dont seem to mind or are just really quiet about it. ive only ever seen them make statements on reps when it was a safety hazard or something.
Grand scheme in life - what's so threatening about it?
I'm not intending to be inflammatory; it's a serious question. I normalize this specific example because I think it's pretty normal. Something to keep in mind is that FEED and it's products are not experiencing anything fundamentally different from companies operating in any of the categories I listed above; and I didn't even include music, food, or software.
Take for instance pharmaceuticals. I feel pretty confident no one here would disagree that it's a net positive for markets and society that people have the option to buy generic amoxicillin vs Augmentin, or ibuprofen vs Advil, or fluoxetine vs Prozac, or sildenafil vs Viagra. And this is for literally the exact same thing.
Shine's product, though intentionally similar aesthetically, is not a perfect replica. It's not made the same way, they are not the same quality, it's not stamped as a FEED product (so it cannot even be misrepresented in the secondary market) and as such they are technically not the same. And a key element here is that these differences are priced in; consumers pay different prices between these products. But this scenario is still chastised.
So what's the difference? Of course the obvious answer delineating the two scenarios is context. Perhaps the argument is that FEED wasn't afforded the opportunity to benefit from a protected sales period that's provided by a patent; like the Brand pharmaceutical companies from my example. Well, perhaps FEED elected not to pursue that or maybe this product doesn't qualify for patent protection; in either case, that isn't my fault and it isn't Shine's fault either.
So then the argument's context becomes "well it's the right thing to do. FEED and their interconnected network of partners producing those hoods should be making that money.". Ok, this is the strongest argument, and it's a good one. But for FEED to suffer material loss, it requires the assumption that purchasers of a substitute were purchasers of the authentic if the substitute didn't exist. And if these products were priced the same, or even near the same, there would be something here. But they aren't priced the same, not even close. I obviously can't speak for others but I am not a buyer of the FEED hood at 2k. I don't get enough utility out of it for that money. Now, if FEED were to offer an alternative design at a high volume with a less costly production process in order to target a market of buyers at my price point and readiness, I would be a customer. But FEED does not want to do that, they want to maintain their production standards and volumes, which of course is their prerogative and a large part of why they are held in high esteem. But Shine stepped in to offer an alternative to the market with a different value proposition (no unique aesthetic, no heritage, lower quality, and a lower price) and because of that another company and their interconnected network of partners, on the other size of the planet, gained a customer. FEED didn't actually lose anything, I have a hood, and more people were able to provide for themselves and their families. Largely, the only people that feel like something is lost in my scenario are those people that have authentic, are aware of my substitute purchase, and don't feel as 'special' while they believe an imposter is in their midst. Well, this is emotional damage and in the grand scheme I just don't find that so threatening. Nor do I feel responsible; if someone can't be happy with what they have without realizing a certain social perception from others, no power that I have or the market has can fix that. Some others may be offended as perceiving it as a violation of morality. To that I would simply caution anyone attempting to claim authority as the arbiter of global virtue; moral absolutism doesn't tend to hold up well over time.
This rabbit hole is deep and dark and I'm not necessarily trying to sway anyone's opinion, merely shining some light on my own.
But if it means anything to you. If Shine's product was stamped FEED, I would not buy it. We all have our limits.
basically agree with everything you said. its a rabbit hole and a difficult subject to discuss. FEEDs customers are not shines customers lol. the people with the money to pay for FEED stamped goods arent the people shopping with shine to get the "value brand" of the "name brand". do the markets really overlap? if someone REALLY wanted a FEED hood and there were no alternatives other than to pay what it costs to have one, would they save up and get one or would they do something else?
you have a good point with no real harm being done and shine isnt really a threat to FEED at all. is the performance shop that opened up across the street from the tires plus really a threat to their customer base? i would say no.
If a creator invents a product / design, do they not deserve full recognition and potentially receive compensation for it? Yes, I personally think so.
I can tell you that this game has been going on for many lifetimes. From fine stringed instruments to the electric guitars of Gibson / Fender and it's never been ok. Stealing is stealing no matter how you slice it, not much deeper than that imo.
If you want FEED or another prominent jdm tuner company, you should be prepared to pay for it. It's where I believe the motto 'pay to play' came from, which also offers you the prestige of ownership. I think we can all agree that generally speaking, no one wants to admit they could only afford imitation X, Y, Z, etc. as opposed to what they really wanted / real product.
Here's a couple quick articles. The guitar one could be better but does its' job presenting the subject well enough.
If a creator invents a product / design, do they not deserve full recognition and potentially receive compensation for it? Yes, I personally think so.
I can tell you that this game has been going on for many lifetimes. From fine stringed instruments to the electric guitars of Gibson / Fender and it's never been ok. Stealing is stealing no matter how you slice it, not much deeper than that imo.
If you want FEED or another prominent jdm tuner company, you should be prepared to pay for it. It's where I believe the motto 'pay to play' came from, which also offers you the prestige of ownership. I think we can all agree that generally speaking, no one wants to admit they could only afford imitation X, Y, Z, etc. as opposed to what they really wanted / real product.
Here's a couple quick articles. The guitar one could be better but does its' job presenting the subject well enough.
Thats where I think you’re wrong. There is no “prestige” for owning authentic parts. I own a real RE Dolphin tail burnt titanium exhaust. Nobody cares if it’s real or not...does it sound good? Absolutely!! Has anyone ever asked me if it were real or not? No bc nobody cares.
Why would anyone be ashamed to admit they own imitation products? I’ve never...not once...came across a person who was “ashamed” they couldn’t afford the real thing or even tried to pass it off as the real thing. Do you think Volk cares that there are 100 different companies producing rep TE37s? No, because people who know the value of the product will buy it, and often times many people do. Are people “ashamed” that they have replicas? Absolutely not. They simply are willing to accept the fact that they don’t own the real product; simple concept. One thing we can all agree on is the SHINE Feed style hood probably isn’t of the same quality as the real thing. So what’s your point? I don’t know what car circles you find yourself in, but I want no parts of them...you sound like an elitist.
I’m out... I guess either you understand that blatantly ripping off someone else’s product is wrong or you don’t.
Shine could have created their own design and all would be well. They didn’t, it’s a direct copy of another company’s work and if you think that’s ok then you are part of the problem.
I've bought several Shine parts and all but one fit fantastic (and that one wasn't that bad either) and they're quality. Not to mention they were cheaper and they got to me much faster than they would have coming from Japan. Not once have I said it was an authentic part, because like Manny said, no one gives a ****, aside from elitists, and I really don't give a **** what an elitist thinks anyway.
If it was a part that could cause serious issues if it broke, like a turbo, fuel pump, suspension components, I would get the real deal. Others can skimp if they want, it's their car, but I'd be much more concerned about a part like that than an aero piece that probably does very little outside of cosmetics anyway. Not to mention the fact that if it's a little different, it's not exactly the same anyway. Aren't these new hoods different than the FEED hoods on the underside? Even though it looks the same on the outside.
For me, price is obviously a concern, but more so it's proximity to the product. If I lived in Japan, I wouldn't be buying from Shine. If the Japanese companies opened up manufacturing in the US, I'd be more apt to buy from them, assuming the price difference wasn't ridiculous.
Seems like people just want to get their panties in a bunch over what other people buy for their car. Have fun, because no one else cares.
Seems like people just want to get their panties in a bunch over what other people buy for their car. Have fun, because no one else cares.
^THAT statement pretty much sums up my $0.02 opinion on this whole thread...
Personally, I would never buy ANY aftermarket body part for my FD or my FC for that matter - but that's a personal choice. I think Mazda got the aesthetic looks of these cars right from the get-go, so I have no need to modify mine with aftermarket body panels or tacked-on aero bits. For those of you who feel differently and like that sort of thing, I won't ever publicly criticize you - it's your money & your car, do whatever you want to it. But I reserve the right to privately snicker at your poor taste in automotive aesthetics
That said, I don't think Shine is doing anything wrong by producing these parts for our cars. A bunch of you already commented on this and provided sound rationale that supports this statement. Here's my rationale in a few bullet points:
Shine is providing a quality product that fills a need in the market at a given price point.
In this case, the Shine product is inspired by the design of a FEED product, but it's not a copy - the Shine product is different in many ways and they clearly disclose those differences to the public.
Shine is not deceptively marketing their unique product as if it were a real FEED part, or price it like the real FEED product.
The FEED product is not protected by any copyright, trademark, patent or intellectual property laws in any country that I'm aware of. As a result, Shine is doing nothing wrong legally or ethically by producing their unique version of a part inspired by a FEED design.
Nobody commented on my pharmaceutical example but it's a scenario effectively identical to this, except worse in terms of the substitute's likeness to the original. This offends nobody.
Mazda still makes 2 piece apex seals. Yet we have multiple aftermarket companies also making 2 piece apex seals. Pretty sure those companies copied Mazda's design and that's why they look the exact same. This offends nobody. (please note - any self proclaimed purist in the thread that would attempt to invalidate this example by pointing out that they're not made the same is a hypocrite.)
Apply your standards universally or get off your pedestal.
11-21-20, 10:49 PM
