rotaryengineering

What has your experience been with tuning cars using AFR Meters/EGT Meters?

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

here comes the smoke and mirrors

rotaryengineering

There is no magic here it was a question related to tuning. If you care to answer the question great.

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

No, that wasn't directed towards you. I just saying (In a kidding way) that alot of rotary guys are tight lipped about what they do. And, if the do speak up it's usually in some crazy riddle that most people can't understand

crispeed

crispeed

Tuning cars is based a little on all the above plus plug reading but mainly experience and some common sence.
Experience is up in the 90% range. There's no way to substitute experience unless pure luck is involved but luck goes both ways and most of the times with no experience it goes the wrong way.

rotaryengineering

Viking War Hammer,

I did not mean to come off sounding like a jerk, but you are absolutely correct. Most tuners don't want to reveal their secrets of how to tune a rotary or how to make power. So your comment is valid, and now I understand your reply. It is all about money. Nobody is going to give away a winning recipe on how to make power. People who tune cars typically own their own shops, and charge for this Service.

I charge for this service, but most Mazda Rotary guys are DIY "Do it yourself" types of customers. So they have to learn the hard way by blowing stuff up at a very high cost of trying to figure out how to tune their own cars.

crispeed,

Your comments are very true, but it is unfortunate that not too many people have figured how to make reliable high horsepower with rotaries. My comments are specific to Drag Racing that is why I posted this thread in this section. Yes there are fast rotaries, but not enough of them. In the "Rotary World" Everything is top secret when it comes to tuning/suspension, and setups in general. Which I believe honestly has hurt the sport in general.

Thanks for your comments and input.
Albert

Ottoman

so what do us poor bastards do that have no tuning support of any kind?

unfortunately i'm not rich enough to fly in my own tuner half way around the globe :p

sleepydave

...learn to tune. crisis precipitate change. i learned when i moved away from the man who was teaching me.

rotorholic

iTrader: (53)

I will have to agree with the experience part, meters are a good tool but if you don't know what your doing in the first place there useless, you guys are going to laugh at me but I have never tuned with a meter before, I listen close to the engine and the feel of it......I have blown up a few engines of my own on street cars using 87 pump gas above 18psi but I guess its pushing the limits of the low octane fuel.......

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

All you need to do your own tuning is an engine stand and crane, and start stockpiling extra turbos and housings now.

I guess it's not that bad if you're NA, but for the turbo guys it's not a pretty thing.

sleepydave

All i needed to do my own tuning was a wideband and half a brain. yes a meter is useless without knowledge, but it sure as hell helps. feel/sound is crucial as well. and i am talking about turbos, it's not that ugly. Stockpiling extra turbos and housings? Just play it safer, start out with higher octane gas till you feel more comfortable tuning pump.

I went through one rotary due to a fluke with the oil seals drenching every plug. My second motor has had nary a hiccup. If you are afraid to break things you are in the wrong hobby. So many people are just plain afraid. there is only one way to get experienced and yes sometimes you have to go through Failure DR. to get to easy st. but you gain knowledge.

rotaryengineering

OK,
No black magic or rhymes or riddles.

If your planning on building or tuning your own normally aspirated or turbo Rotary performance engine I highly recommend you invest in a digital display AFR Meter and a EGT Meter.

This will cost you some cash, but it is probably the best couple of hundred dollars you could ever spend on your car. The meters will cost you less than what it cost to do a decent engine rebuild from a reputable engine builder. Most turbo rotary cars have tons of cash in Turbos, Fuel Injection, Injectors, Intercoolers, built motors, and very few people invest in tools to tune their own vehicles. Protect your own investment by taking the time to understand what your paying for when you have something done. Common sense has alot to do with tuning so be smart, and ask questions if you don't know what your doing. So look at purchasing EGT/AFR Meters as an investment not just throwing money away for no reason.

If you have the cash to build a bad *** rotary take a little more cash, and invest in tools on how to tune your ride. If your not a tuner then pay a reputable Engine Builder/Tuner to jet the carburetor or program your ECU.

The first attached photo is a Computech EGT Meter to show what a good decent reliable unit will cost. This unit has a 7 millisecond update cycle time so if you hold the probe in your hand it will actually show the temperature of your hand. They run about $350.00 for the dual probe unit, and $300.00 for the single probe. The NA guys should purchase the dual probe for each header pipe off the engine, and the turbo guys should probably buy the single probe unit for the turbo downpipe.

The second attached photo is a Microtech AFR Meter. This unit is about $1,500.00 not cheap, but it works well to keep track of your air fuel ratios.

Thanks
Albert

AnthonyNYC

iTrader: (3)

I use an FJO wideband in conjuction with a TEC3. I started with an innovate with the bosche sensor and that did not last too long. I went through a few sensors before I decided to get the FJO unit with the NTK sensor.

All air fuel ratio's are logged via the tec unit so each pass I make I can playback to see where I need to add or remove a few percent. I'm now adding a dual EGT guage to monitor timing changes with HP and EGTs.

Anthony

rotaryengineering

Anthony,

If your running injection that is the best way to tune. I consider the TEC3 unit to be one of the better ECU's on the market, but most Rotary customers I know refuse to spend that kind of cash. Look at Ken and Dee running some serious numbers using the Electromotive Injection/Ignition ECU. That is one of the real big benefits of using Fuel Management/ Ignition control into one unit.

I am "Old School" when I ran my old turbo setup on the dyno I rigged up my EGT/AFR Digital gauges next to my Tach. Then setup my video camera to record everything during the dyno pulls. After every change I would replay the camera, and make adjustments as needed.

But the new improved method is if you can capture all the information using ECU/Data logging, then being able to replay the information on a laptop. Nice and convenient to be able to replay a dyno pull or a even a 1/4 mile pass down the track.

Cost is always an issue so on my new Microtech ignition only setup I wanted the ability to log/control Ignition, RPM and AFR. You setup a RPM activation point when you want to start ECU/DATA logging, then it records the information. Once the information is captured you can download it from the ECU to be analyzed. This is very valuable information once it is captured because instead of running your engine to the point of breaking you can make changes as needed. The key is knowing how to analyze the data that is captured. If your not a pro at tuning you can send the data file to someone who is to be analyzed.

Thanks for your reply
Albert