Black Magic

iTrader: (2)

Just like a real engine, i mean piston engine. The sleeves can be pressed out and have new ones or solid deck sleeves installed, ETC. Except do that with the rotor housings? I saw a pic of a polished 13b, and thought to myself, what a waste of time/$ when it blows in like 10k. Then i thought it would be a great idea (if not already done) to have the rotor housings "sleeved" like a piston engine.

Or is there some wierd issues with the rotor sleeves (il call em that) walking or whatever?

I dunno, first rotary topic ive posted in a while, not like i keep up on this ish, but i had something to say/ask.

Any thoughts/comments?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

the sleeve is meshed with the aluminum during the casting process and there is no way to press them out and replace them that i know of, the expansion and contraction of the aluminum requires that they be bound together or it could cause a few issues with the coolant seals, the steel/chrome sleeve is actually what keeps the housings somewhat rigid or they would probably float around alot and have tons of sealing issues.


i would like to see ceramic coated housings become a more widely accepted alternative but so far they are tough to come by and somewhat expensive if you can even find a supplier.

rotaryfreak3

Well, with piston engines, the sleeves are cast into the block as well. IIRC, they are cut out.

RexRyder

iTrader: (10)

lol

rotaryrudy

iTrader: (2)

isnt it good to hear a joke just scrolling threw the threads

Kenku

The steel strips that make the inner surface of the rotor housings have what looks like a tiny sawblade section on their back side to keep everything stuck together. So they're not getting pressed out. And the shape is rather complicated to machine out. And making a new wear surface is kind of complicated because of the geometry, need for a smooth weld, and need to be very very hard chromed (though there's some that are working on that last part actually) And there's no way to get a new steel inner wear surface thing to bond as securely to the rotor housing as the old one.

So overall, you rapidly get to the point where it would be easier just to cast a new rotor housing from scratch... which, unless you have unholy amounts of expertise and the facilities to do so, really means just buying a new damn housing would be cheaper/easier/better.

MikeLMR

Not all piston engines are like that

some have no liners at all, some have liners that 'float' trapped between the bottom of the block and the head, some are pressed in etc. etc. its all down to what was decided at the design stage.

some of the more modern engines even have the casting around the bore modified via some tricky casting methods to improve the material properties

GUITARJUNKIE28

remember the renault's with the aluminum cylinder walls? frog crackheads!!

Cheesy

Ive got a set of aluminium side plates that are very much the same

maxcooper

I just read about the latest BMW 3-series engine in Car & Driver that uses aluminum for the cylinders and water/oil passages for corrosion resistance and then magnesium for the rest of the block to keep weight down. I think it is all one casting, too. Neat.

-Max

t-von

iTrader: (8)

I think the guy is talking about engineering the housings so they can be re-sleeved if necessary. Not re-sleeving the stock housings. If Mazda re-engineered the housings, this could be possible.

GUITARJUNKIE28

dimme see! dimme see!!

Cheesy

ill try and dig them out of tonight and take a picture, needs a rebuild at mo which will not be happening anytime soon though, its periferal ported and ides at about 700 rpm. That will keep you guessing.

GUITARJUNKIE28

all about the port timing

are those the RB aluminum side housings? i've heard people talk about them, but never met anyone who's used them.....actually, i've never met anyone who's even met anyone who's used them :p

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

The rotor housings would be harder to do than the side plates. You could jsut design a sideplate like a flywheel with a replacable friction surface. Just figure out the cooling ability.

http://home.earthlink.net/~rotaryeng...-end-house.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~rotaryeng/2pc-end-house.gif

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

the early housings arent saw bladed and they had problems keeping it together, hence the sawblade.

GUITARJUNKIE28

wuzzup fred, my buddy and i were thinking of that exact same thing

we're just waiting on the cnc mill

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Yes but there is a hugh differance in todays technology when compared to back then. I think now it could easily be done. It's all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$

GUITARJUNKIE28

i think they rely on eachother to hold shape. without one, there's nothing to hold the other in shape.

so while you pressed the "sleeve" out, it's possible the housing could tweak and not provide an accurate shape for the new sleeve to be pressed into.

it'd be great if someone could make it work, but i think if it were feasable, mazda would have done it already. cost-to-benefit...

Cheesy

When people get the grinding of old housings completely sorted that will be the way to go. There are hundreds of materials that can be plasma sprayed that would be suitable. Plasma sprayed coatings would most likely be better on Al side plates than an insert as well, no thermal conduction problems etc and fewer parts to make

GUITARJUNKIE28

if you can make it work, i'll buy them

Kenku

Crap, I remember I saw that before... just need to figure out how to get it into a form that doesn't have to be cast, though.

GUITARJUNKIE28

why?

Kenku

Well, if you mean why do they have to be cast, because there's all sorts of coolant passages running around back there. if you mean why do it at all, signifigant weight savings.

Cheesy

Aluminium side plates, the 13b rotor is to give an idea of the size. They are from the air cooled Norton rotary these specific ones are from the Interpol II ploice bike. Time and money and ill get it back together some time. In fact with this type of Al I could just get them reground and etch them again but a plasma spray coating would be much better