Nihilanthic

The "other conversion" forum had a thread asking what we thought of rotaries, so I figured I'd extend an olive branch and open up a counterpart thread to it in here.

Both 'camps' have their own set of stereotypes and misconceptions of engines, and this is the place to tell them all

Seriously, let it all out, just please dont let this get into a pissyfest.

RETed

If I wanted a V8, I would've gotten a Camaro.
Funny, I was just talking to one of the FC-V8 guys last night, and that was the exact comment I made.
I've done 13B-REW's and even 20B's into FC's, and I would rather prefer to keep the RX-7 rotary engine if possible.
Although, I admit a V8 RX-8 is fun, it is just my personal preference to keep it rotary.

I hope I'm not one of those with "misconceptions"...
I still want that '70.5 Camaro RS / SS one day...


-Ted

Kenku

Yeah, basicially. V8s are fine, some neat cars were powered by them, some of which I really want to own. I don't think anyone can see Can Am cars and not want one. And some people like the RX-7 chassis but think it needs a different engine. Well, cool, their car, can't really fault them for having their own opinions. I like rotaries though.

RandomHero

iTrader: (2)

Its not personally something i would want to do, if i were to swap, then i would go for a 20b, a 4g63, or a high powered inline six. But i certainly have nothing against v8 rx7 guys, becuase as i have said in the past, when you guys go to swap in the v8 you are letting the old rotaries go for pretty good prices right? Hell, thats one more rx7 out of the junkyard and back on the road.

Nihilanthic

Yeah we generally do not jew out on the pricing of em. Theres no contempt except for a few people on em, and generally would rather give them to someone who'd make use of them instead of keep it around uselessly.

So why 4 or 6 cyls over v8s? Is there some sort of image trying to be avoided by owning one? I commonly hear about people complain that its "too easy" to make power, but I dont want a challenge in spending money and matching up/finding parts - I want performance to enjoy and challenge in motorsport.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

I like V8's and the low end power they have. The only way I would even consider putting a V8 in my Rx7 is if it was the engine found in the new Ferrari Modena. Those engines sound freaking awesome and have a hi rpm band just like a rotary. I think even a true rotor-head would appreciate that engine.

RandomHero

iTrader: (2)

Becuase i wouldnt be familiar with an american made v8, in my position, it would be easier to get parts and tuning for japanese engines. I have also already worked on some of them, and know what they can do.
Maybe someday when i have a lot more money to work with, i would consider an EFI american v8.
Brett

rarson

If I did a V8, it'd have to be an engine like the 1UZ. I personally DON'T like the American V8 powerband... all torque and no pull. I think my ideal choice would be a 2.4L 4g63 turbo. Can make plenty of power to murder V8 RX-7's, while giving me the powerband and driving experience I love.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind having an LS1-powered FC or FD. And if I did specifically want that engine, I wouldn't want it in a hulking chassis like an F-body. And I have driven an F-body and had fun in it. But, for me, the LS1 swap would be the least favorable option for me.

Nihilanthic

rarson.. you know what a CAM is right? the lumpy sticks.... you only need one! You can tune a v8 any way you want, just like a 1UZ... or a 4G63 or any other engine. I dont understand that logic.

The only real concern with building a v8 to the nth degree is theyre generally already really, really powerful. 300whp is HOW fast in a rx-7? Getting one to pull all the way to a high redline isnt hard at all, 1500-6500 or 3000-7000 rpm cams arent exactly hard to come by, and you can port heads or buy some damn AFRs for less than the price of a turbo. Oh and if you go SBC you can ditch the stock 5500 rpm intake for one that supports any rpm range you want. Yes, any, 10,000K if you feel like building a full out drag racing motor LOL

Besdies, its not just the LS1. There is the LT1 and the old SBCs and SBFs that can be done on the cheap and make virtually as much power as you want. I mean **** zuxbeinyu on Torque Central is getting around 400 at the WHEELS out of a SBF. And its a 5 liter v8... so its not 'all torque', it pulls at high rpms. And the turbo option goes all the way from 500 hp to.... 'deathwish'.

And uh theres always Jimlab's franken-v8 if he ever actually puts it in a car instead of admiring it LOL.

astrochild7

iTrader: (3)

there is a warm place for in my heart for both...hell I was bottle fed to roarin V8's..

1st car 70 cutlass coupe
2nd car 71 cutlass coupe
3rd car 72 chevelle SS built...

I will build a 68 camero 65 barracuda 70.5 camero 69 cutlass(hurst) 69 charger
and a couple others before I'm done.. course that doesn't include all 3 gens of rx7's.

RandomHero

iTrader: (2)

Gee, i wonder why there is love lost between v8 and rotary guys. And what v8 only uses one cam?

rarson

Sure, I could buy a V8, spend a couple grand, and get that kind of powerband with a modded engine that probably doesn't run like stock. But that engine will also be louder, and personally, I don't really enjoy the V8 sound. Some of them sound great, but generally, all the LS1's that my friends have modded have always just been loud and obnoxious (probably just a poor choice of exhaust).

And that's the great thing about the V8, cheap power. But to turn 9500 rpm, with a reason to, takes a DOHC engine. Or a lot more money. The "logic" is actually physics, and it has to do with the fact that 4-valve heads flow better than 2-valve heads. And a DOHC V8 has twice the valvetrain parts of both my 4g63 and the LS1. So I'd rather just keep my sweet little 4-cylinder exhaust note and get the powerband I want for that few grand that I'd be paying for the LS1 engine.

Also, the 4g63 has the advantage of bolting straight up to the TII transmission. No extra drivetrain parts to purchase.

Like I said, don't get me wrong, because I'd love to have an LS1-powered FC (especially with a T56 behind it!), but it's not my first choice.

Nihilanthic

4v heads outflow 2v heads at low lift and/or small boresize. Im sure you realize thats pretty easy to overcome if your displacement is on the big side of 5 liters the Ford 302 has a 4" bore. Flow is NOT a problem - www.airflowresearch.com check out some of the flow rates.

But yes, if you want a small displacement engine, which a v8 AINT, then yeah you kind of need DOHC heads. And the low lift flow means you can use a slower ramp-rate. So yes, it makes sense... in that application. Just please dont act like it even matters in a v8 unless its some shitty *** 305 with a bore that shrouds the valves, ok? We use 302s, 350s, or even bigger ones.

Now, as far as 9500 rpms (which I assume is for the sake of spinning that high in and of itself...) with any engine takes healthy headflow, strong rotating assembly (not JUST DOHC) and a strong top end. There are pushrod motors that can hit that high too bub. Its just generally not done for a few reasons... the first of which being that its freaking overkill. Whose going to be able to put that kind of power down? These arent small engines! If you're a rev-freak then a smaller engine would make sense. BTW... a healthy 350 cid engine pulling 9500 rpms would be putting down~~ 700 hp or so. Yeah there are crazy people who want more but thats a LOT. Any N/A engine pulling that high is gonna be pretty unstreetable and wild unless its a honda VTEC engine :P

Now, as far as exhaust note... PLEASE. Rotaries have terribly raspy exhaust notes because of the peripherial ports! 4bangers tend to sound sort of like sewing machines to me... but then again this might be subjective. "v8s sound like junk" is kind of ridiculous.

And well, if you want STREETABLE power past a certain degree of N/A tuning, you need forced induction. 1500-6500 power band is NOT unstreetable. And a 3000-7000 powerband is also hardly unstreetable considering people find turbos that come on @ 3K streetable

ANY turbo that you can slap on a smaller engine would work better on a larger displacement engine unless you'd max it out. So... whats the issue?