Should I bridgeport?
03-29-02, 03:43 AM
#52
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Originally posted by RETed
See, that's the problem...
I mentioned if you can honestly keep the engine above 4kRPM, then I see no problem BP'ing the engine.  The hang-up is that you cannot guarantee this for EVERY track you go to unless 1) you're restricted to certain tracks, or 2) have the ability to change your gear-sets.  I've been on tracks where due to the stock FC gearing, the revs drop below 4kRPM (Laguna Seca Turn 11 is a good example).  First gear will end up redlining the engine out of the turn (and adding an extra shift), but a stout 2nd gear is more than enough to pull out with decent power.  Going into 60mph through Turn 11 means you've got one helluva good suspension, or you need to slow down...
Road racing throws a lot of variables at you.  I'd rather have the wide power band and give up some of the top end on a track I have no too much experience with.  Torque gets you out of the corners quicker.  We regularly chase full-race Mustangs that pull the hell on us 200-300hp FC's out of the turn, but we easily catch them diving into a corner or going through a transition - they have double the power!
The thing that irritates me is all the people who just want the "brap brap brap" noise, but have no clue what thay are getting themselves into.  This is why I question each and every BP post that pops up - I find it unnecessary for 90% of the people who are on here.  Most of these guys won't break 300...400hp on their cars.  Why would you want to BP your engine with only 300hp as a goal?
-Ted
See, that's the problem...
I mentioned if you can honestly keep the engine above 4kRPM, then I see no problem BP'ing the engine.  The hang-up is that you cannot guarantee this for EVERY track you go to unless 1) you're restricted to certain tracks, or 2) have the ability to change your gear-sets.  I've been on tracks where due to the stock FC gearing, the revs drop below 4kRPM (Laguna Seca Turn 11 is a good example).  First gear will end up redlining the engine out of the turn (and adding an extra shift), but a stout 2nd gear is more than enough to pull out with decent power.  Going into 60mph through Turn 11 means you've got one helluva good suspension, or you need to slow down...
Road racing throws a lot of variables at you.  I'd rather have the wide power band and give up some of the top end on a track I have no too much experience with.  Torque gets you out of the corners quicker.  We regularly chase full-race Mustangs that pull the hell on us 200-300hp FC's out of the turn, but we easily catch them diving into a corner or going through a transition - they have double the power!
The thing that irritates me is all the people who just want the "brap brap brap" noise, but have no clue what thay are getting themselves into.  This is why I question each and every BP post that pops up - I find it unnecessary for 90% of the people who are on here.  Most of these guys won't break 300...400hp on their cars.  Why would you want to BP your engine with only 300hp as a goal?
-Ted
Like most tracks in the world, performance below 4k rpm when you have an engine that makes max power at 7 to 8k simply is not an issue, even with the std wide ratio boxes we have in mazda's.
The only tracks that performance below 4k is an issue is realy tight Hill Climb type goat tracks, which alot of us do not go on and again the issues here are the same as ever, you cannot use full power out of such tight turns anyway so it is realy pointless having alot of power below 4k anyway. This would be an issue if your engine only revs to 6 or 6.5K to make max power, but in a single turbo world 7k tends to be the norm, some below, alot above. So when you look at it power below 4k is not a real issue for racers with rotary engines, especially when you are talking about outputs above 400BHP (engine power).
Std cars with slight mods, well that is a different issue altogether..........T2 or REW blocks with T04 family or larger turbo's are only realy interested in power above 4k not power below 4k, cause as I said the amount of time spent below 4k when doing ANY type of racing is so small that it is not an issue. This is why we have gearboxes I suppose ?
Last edited by RICE RACING; 03-29-02 at 03:46 AM.
03-29-02, 11:35 AM
#53
Senior Member
I sure will keep you folks up to date on how I feel about the bridge port.
In an attempt to help answer the original question "Should I bridgeport?"......
The car is my everyday driver but, I don't have to drive every day. I drive about 80 miles per week for work and maybe another 100 for pleasure. The car is complete..., a/c, p/s and no weight reduction.
Here is my initial impression:
I've removed all of the factory cold start equipment. The car will not idle on it's own in 60 degree weather when first started. I have to hold it near 3000 rpm to make it run when cold. I'm sure I can make it better with some of the Haltech settings.
I have tried to tune for a slower, better idle by adding and then subtracting fuel from 1500 to 2500 rpm. None of that has worked for me. My idle is about 1850 according to the tach but, the Haltech says that it's about 1700. I'll believe the Haltech.
To get the car moving now takes more rpm than with the street port. I think that some of that is due to the 17lb flywheel instead of the factory 28lb one. It's no big deal though, just rev to 3000 and slip the clutch a little.
Shifting is fine. I can't tell any difference because of the lighter flywheel but, I haven't driven the car since August 26th.
I can't drive in 5th gear at anything below at least 50 mph. It bucks and spits because I'm at my idle speed! I'm sure that will get better if I can get the fuel better at that rpm. Some of it should be due to the lighter flywheel.
I won't be driving it again until Monday night though, my battery is bad after sitting for seven months. I have the Optima battery and if I want another at no charge, I have to wait until Monday because today is a holiday, the only place here that sells Optima is closed.
Oh well though, I need to do a few things like routing of vacuum lines and such. I'll report again after I get some more driving time.
The bottom line so far is, if you don't mind having to sit in the car or use a brick to keep it running when it's cold, I recommend the bridge port on both primary and secondary.
Mike
In an attempt to help answer the original question "Should I bridgeport?"......
The car is my everyday driver but, I don't have to drive every day. I drive about 80 miles per week for work and maybe another 100 for pleasure. The car is complete..., a/c, p/s and no weight reduction.
Here is my initial impression:
I've removed all of the factory cold start equipment. The car will not idle on it's own in 60 degree weather when first started. I have to hold it near 3000 rpm to make it run when cold. I'm sure I can make it better with some of the Haltech settings.
I have tried to tune for a slower, better idle by adding and then subtracting fuel from 1500 to 2500 rpm. None of that has worked for me. My idle is about 1850 according to the tach but, the Haltech says that it's about 1700. I'll believe the Haltech.
To get the car moving now takes more rpm than with the street port. I think that some of that is due to the 17lb flywheel instead of the factory 28lb one. It's no big deal though, just rev to 3000 and slip the clutch a little.
Shifting is fine. I can't tell any difference because of the lighter flywheel but, I haven't driven the car since August 26th.
I can't drive in 5th gear at anything below at least 50 mph. It bucks and spits because I'm at my idle speed! I'm sure that will get better if I can get the fuel better at that rpm. Some of it should be due to the lighter flywheel.
I won't be driving it again until Monday night though, my battery is bad after sitting for seven months. I have the Optima battery and if I want another at no charge, I have to wait until Monday because today is a holiday, the only place here that sells Optima is closed.
Oh well though, I need to do a few things like routing of vacuum lines and such. I'll report again after I get some more driving time.
The bottom line so far is, if you don't mind having to sit in the car or use a brick to keep it running when it's cold, I recommend the bridge port on both primary and secondary.
Mike
Last edited by MikeL; 03-29-02 at 11:49 AM.
03-29-02, 03:21 PM
#54
Old [Sch|F]ool
When are you going to dyno it? Very curious as to the torque curve at lower RPM. Also, what turbo setup do you have (assuming it's turbo)?
edit: would there be a way to rig up a cold-start fast idle? the SDS way of doing it looks easily adaptable to practically anything if you can find a good adjustable thermoswitch - all it is is an on/off throttle body bypass regulated by coolant temp. And even sleazier way around it is to rig it up to a simple toggle switch. With all the functionality of a Haltech I'm sure there's got to be a way to switch something based on coolant temp (i'm not familiar with Haltechs though)
edit: would there be a way to rig up a cold-start fast idle? the SDS way of doing it looks easily adaptable to practically anything if you can find a good adjustable thermoswitch - all it is is an on/off throttle body bypass regulated by coolant temp. And even sleazier way around it is to rig it up to a simple toggle switch. With all the functionality of a Haltech I'm sure there's got to be a way to switch something based on coolant temp (i'm not familiar with Haltechs though)
Last edited by peejay; 03-29-02 at 03:25 PM.
03-30-02, 07:08 AM
#55
Senior Member
It'll be a while before I dyno the thing. I can't afford to even take the chance of blowing it up right now, business has been real bad since Sept 11th. I should be okay just driving it around though. The Haltech settings are almost unchanged from when I had my old engine. I've lowered the timing by 2 degrees and added a little more fuel. I won't be running more than 12 psi boost either.
It has a T-66 and .96 undivided turbine housing.
I might put the BAC valve back on and see if it can keep it running when cold. I'll need it for the a/c anyway.
It has a T-66 and .96 undivided turbine housing.
I might put the BAC valve back on and see if it can keep it running when cold. I'll need it for the a/c anyway.
Last edited by MikeL; 03-30-02 at 10:37 AM.
03-31-02, 10:51 PM
#57
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Re: Should I bridgeport?
DO YOU KNOW FOR A FACT THAT BRIDGE PORT TURBOS WORK,AND WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO DO TO A STANDARD
ENGINE TO GET ONE TO WORK
AND WHAT DO U MEAN BY STREET PORT
ENGINE TO GET ONE TO WORK
AND WHAT DO U MEAN BY STREET PORT
03-31-02, 11:28 PM
#58
inteligent extratarestril
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MORE TIPS:
1) FIND THAT BLOODY CAPS LOCK KEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2) go into the single turbo section and the 2nd generation section and have a look at all thread with BPT or Bridge port turbo in the title, read them, then comes back a little wiser
1) FIND THAT BLOODY CAPS LOCK KEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2) go into the single turbo section and the 2nd generation section and have a look at all thread with BPT or Bridge port turbo in the title, read them, then comes back a little wiser
04-02-02, 08:18 PM
#60
Cheese
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soul assasin,
damn, your car is sweepurb!!!
if anyone is wondering what a bridgeport/turbo sounds like check out one of the soul assasin vids
http://velocity.isfaster.com/new/multimedia/main.htm
damn, your car is sweepurb!!!
if anyone is wondering what a bridgeport/turbo sounds like check out one of the soul assasin vids
http://velocity.isfaster.com/new/multimedia/main.htm
04-04-02, 01:43 PM
#61
Gaijin Racing
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Originally posted by ORX705
soul assasin,
damn, your car is sweepurb!!!
if anyone is wondering what a bridgeport/turbo sounds like check out one of the soul assasin vids
http://velocity.isfaster.com/new/multimedia/main.htm
soul assasin,
damn, your car is sweepurb!!!
if anyone is wondering what a bridgeport/turbo sounds like check out one of the soul assasin vids
http://velocity.isfaster.com/new/multimedia/main.htm
Ryan, can you make a "Kiss Soul Assassin's ***" Forum?
04-05-02, 08:40 AM
#63
Senior Member
When I went from stock to street port, the idle had to be set a little higher and everything having to do with normal, smooth driving required more rpm to make it happen.
Now with the bridge port, everything got much worse. A 90 degree turn from a light at about 15 mph used to be able to be done in 2nd gear. Now, I must either use first gear or, use 2nd gear and slip the clutch a little to maintain rpm when coming out of the corner. Otherwise, it will bog and go nowhere.
With the street port, I could cruise down a 35 mph street in 4th or even 5th gear. Now, I'm in 3rd gear at 35 mph. I do not use 5th gear at anything less than 50 mph.
Any light throttle cruise is noisy and jerky but, I can't get anybody to ride with me to tune so, the tuning is taking a while.
I've had to lower the timing by 4-6 degrees to keep the knock sensor display from showing detonation even at cruise and part throttle acceleration.
My stock ported engine started instantly. The street ported engine took about a second to start. The bridge ported takes a couple seconds of cranking to fire. No big deal.
Again, all of the normal driving things are much worse, louder and harder. All of the performance things are better
I still believe that I can improve the drivability issues with more tuning.
Now with the bridge port, everything got much worse. A 90 degree turn from a light at about 15 mph used to be able to be done in 2nd gear. Now, I must either use first gear or, use 2nd gear and slip the clutch a little to maintain rpm when coming out of the corner. Otherwise, it will bog and go nowhere.
With the street port, I could cruise down a 35 mph street in 4th or even 5th gear. Now, I'm in 3rd gear at 35 mph. I do not use 5th gear at anything less than 50 mph.
Any light throttle cruise is noisy and jerky but, I can't get anybody to ride with me to tune so, the tuning is taking a while.
I've had to lower the timing by 4-6 degrees to keep the knock sensor display from showing detonation even at cruise and part throttle acceleration.
My stock ported engine started instantly. The street ported engine took about a second to start. The bridge ported takes a couple seconds of cranking to fire. No big deal.
Again, all of the normal driving things are much worse, louder and harder. All of the performance things are better
I still believe that I can improve the drivability issues with more tuning.
Last edited by MikeL; 04-05-02 at 09:04 AM.
04-05-02, 03:58 PM
#64
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I personaly dont have experiance with Full Bridge engines but driving my PB (fitted with a RB T04s) i have to say the low down power is alot beter that may be due to my Turbo.
I to have the Starting problem it takes a few turns to get it going and the cold start is playing up at the moment so once it is going i have to hold the revs at 2500rpm for a few minutes until it warms up a bit and it idles at 1500rpm.
At this stage if i was you i would be looking at geting a Devided manifold and Turbine housing as it would help spool up and low down power,
I to have the Starting problem it takes a few turns to get it going and the cold start is playing up at the moment so once it is going i have to hold the revs at 2500rpm for a few minutes until it warms up a bit and it idles at 1500rpm.
At this stage if i was you i would be looking at geting a Devided manifold and Turbine housing as it would help spool up and low down power,
04-06-02, 04:38 AM
#65
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Originally posted by Grizzly
At this stage if i was you i would be looking at geting a Devided manifold and Turbine housing as it would help spool up and low down power,
At this stage if i was you i would be looking at geting a Devided manifold and Turbine housing as it would help spool up and low down power,
Go divided... BP or not... world of difference.... especially if you stick with a .96 a/r like you have now! You should be able to bump up to a 1.15 a/r with a divided housing and have the same spool up time, but more top end... but you already know that
04-06-02, 11:45 AM
#66
Senior Member
Grizzly, I have a 1.15 a/r, P-trim, divided turbine housing here waiting for me to be able to afford a manifold and the downpipe work.
I've been tuning a little and after adding more fuel from just below boost all the way to 30psi, it's a lot eaiser to drive and more smooth.
Putting back in some of the timing that I had taken out has helped too.
The most ***-hauling that I've done is a little less than 1/2 throttle and about 2psi up to about 5.5k rpm. As I've added more fuel and put back some of the timing, it's gotten to where it's almost completely smooth while doing that driving.
I'm gonna get my son in law in the car tonight for some more tuning. I think it's gonna be fine.
I have an oil leak!!!! I think it's the turbo's oil return line.
I've been tuning a little and after adding more fuel from just below boost all the way to 30psi, it's a lot eaiser to drive and more smooth.
Putting back in some of the timing that I had taken out has helped too.
The most ***-hauling that I've done is a little less than 1/2 throttle and about 2psi up to about 5.5k rpm. As I've added more fuel and put back some of the timing, it's gotten to where it's almost completely smooth while doing that driving.
I'm gonna get my son in law in the car tonight for some more tuning. I think it's gonna be fine.
I have an oil leak!!!! I think it's the turbo's oil return line.
04-07-02, 06:29 AM
#67
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Just wait until you get the boost up, Bridges are just powerful no other way to discribe it the Car responds beter etc but i strugled with wheel spin and mines only a PB. Have fun as there wont be much staying with you.
Mikel, i have just had a look at your pictures on your site of your engine work. Man your car is a work of art when mine was done i gave it a coat of paint and that was about it the other thing is the Alloy pipe on the Inlet to the water pump std on the mk4 T2? or have you used a Na one?
Mikel, i have just had a look at your pictures on your site of your engine work. Man your car is a work of art when mine was done i gave it a coat of paint and that was about it the other thing is the Alloy pipe on the Inlet to the water pump std on the mk4 T2? or have you used a Na one?
Last edited by Grizzly; 04-07-02 at 06:37 AM.
04-07-02, 05:26 PM
#68
Senior Member
Grizzly, I finally couldn't control myself any longer. Today I did about 2/3 throttle and about 8 psi up to 6.5k rpm. It felt great. I've got it set quite rich now and I saw a cloud of black smoke behind me when I let off. I blew two of my vacuum caps off the intake when I boosted. I'll JB Weld them tonight.
Thanks for the compliment!
As far as I know, mine had that "thermostat housing" on it when it was stock. My son's S4 TII has it and my S4 TII project car has it. It must be a S4 thing.
Thanks for the compliment!
As far as I know, mine had that "thermostat housing" on it when it was stock. My son's S4 TII has it and my S4 TII project car has it. It must be a S4 thing.
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