Scratching my head over what apex seals to pick
05-10-20, 02:59 PM
#76
It seems like somebody has to be posting up something sooner or later on the i-Rotary seals. Heard they’ve been selling well and on backorder at times. 
you should look into HJS cat converters, they can handle that.
had quite a few years racing on mine in an emissions-required class, it was the 100 cpi motorsport version rated for 1000*C, not sure about a sniffer though after warmup it was clean smelling, passed OBD2 without issue or any “tricks”
https://www.hjs-motorsport.de/homepage.html
.
you should look into HJS cat converters, they can handle that.
had quite a few years racing on mine in an emissions-required class, it was the 100 cpi motorsport version rated for 1000*C, not sure about a sniffer though after warmup it was clean smelling, passed OBD2 without issue or any “tricks”
https://www.hjs-motorsport.de/homepage.html
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 05-10-20 at 03:14 PM.
05-10-20, 10:08 PM
#77
You don't need long straights. Whenever you're off the brakes, you're on the throttle. A track day is generally four 20 min sessions, sometimes 30 mins. That's up to 2 hours of brutal conditions on your car
One thing worth noting is if your car is forced induction or NA. If it's NA, exhaust temps should be lower
One thing worth noting is if your car is forced induction or NA. If it's NA, exhaust temps should be lower
05-11-20, 09:35 AM
#78
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,890
Received 2,638 Likes
on
1,868 Posts
It seems like somebody has to be posting up something sooner or later on the i-Rotary seals. Heard they’ve been selling well and on backorder at times.
you should look into HJS cat converters, they can handle that.
had quite a few years racing on mine in an emissions-required class, it was the 100 cpi motorsport version rated for 1000*C, not sure about a sniffer though after warmup it was clean smelling, passed OBD2 without issue or any “tricks”
https://www.hjs-motorsport.de/homepage.html
.
you should look into HJS cat converters, they can handle that.
had quite a few years racing on mine in an emissions-required class, it was the 100 cpi motorsport version rated for 1000*C, not sure about a sniffer though after warmup it was clean smelling, passed OBD2 without issue or any “tricks”
https://www.hjs-motorsport.de/homepage.html
.
i brought up EGT just because we were talking about it, and i've logged some stock ECU cars. the limit for those is ~650c at the cat, and the turbo car can run hotter at the engine because the turbo soaks up a lot of heat.
that being said, the old school limit was usually the turbine wheel, all of the old standard turbine wheels melt about 950c, so that is your cap at the engine
05-18-20, 08:35 AM
#79
Green Brothers Racing in NZ posted a review of I-Rotary seals used in their drift car on facebook, Mazdatrix has it copied on their website here
The following users liked this post:
TomU (05-18-20)
05-18-20, 09:35 AM
#80
Gold Wheels FTW
Myles who does a lot of the builds for mazmart had a motor with i-Rotary seals die on the dyno. No damage to the housings at all. They're designed to bend and not break, and they're softer on the housings. I've got them for my 20b, but I don't have the motor yet to comment. I would imagine that you cannot go wrong with anything designed by Dr Iannetti...
Last edited by reddozen; 05-18-20 at 09:39 AM.
05-18-20, 10:59 AM
#82
That's all well and good, but if you have to replace your seals after 20 hrs because they warped....
Hoping these are a good compromise between strength and forgiveness. The Green Bros. Racing data looks promising. Curious exactly what conditions the motor experienced. Not sure exactly what "2.5 years the car has completed many meeting and events" means.
Hoping these are a good compromise between strength and forgiveness. The Green Bros. Racing data looks promising. Curious exactly what conditions the motor experienced. Not sure exactly what "2.5 years the car has completed many meeting and events" means.
06-09-20, 11:31 AM
#83
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,890
Received 2,638 Likes
on
1,868 Posts
06-09-20, 10:56 PM
#84
Pretty sure apex seals warp because the rotor housing near the sparkplugs gets too hot and expands to stick up further than the sides of the rotor housing in that area.
Then when the apex seal passes over that area with the bad angle it has in that position the side load of the sparkplug bump on the apex seal either wears the seal on one side in the middle like with stock apex seals or in softer metal seals it actually bends the seal as it wears that spot into the seal.
The rotor housing sparkplug area deformation is worst with the extreme heat of detonation.
General overheating of the entire engine does not cause this deformation in my experience.
Then when the apex seal passes over that area with the bad angle it has in that position the side load of the sparkplug bump on the apex seal either wears the seal on one side in the middle like with stock apex seals or in softer metal seals it actually bends the seal as it wears that spot into the seal.
The rotor housing sparkplug area deformation is worst with the extreme heat of detonation.
General overheating of the entire engine does not cause this deformation in my experience.
06-10-20, 09:18 AM
#85
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,890
Received 2,638 Likes
on
1,868 Posts
Pretty sure apex seals warp because the rotor housing near the sparkplugs gets too hot and expands to stick up further than the sides of the rotor housing in that area.
Then when the apex seal passes over that area with the bad angle it has in that position the side load of the sparkplug bump on the apex seal either wears the seal on one side in the middle like with stock apex seals or in softer metal seals it actually bends the seal as it wears that spot into the seal.
The rotor housing sparkplug area deformation is worst with the extreme heat of detonation.
General overheating of the entire engine does not cause this deformation in my experience.
Then when the apex seal passes over that area with the bad angle it has in that position the side load of the sparkplug bump on the apex seal either wears the seal on one side in the middle like with stock apex seals or in softer metal seals it actually bends the seal as it wears that spot into the seal.
The rotor housing sparkplug area deformation is worst with the extreme heat of detonation.
General overheating of the entire engine does not cause this deformation in my experience.
the wear you're talking about is real, the stock seals aren't straight, see pic
06-10-20, 12:15 PM
#86
Smarter people than I could pinpoint specifics but in reference to your question about heating up a set of seals and warpage (as well as sort of playing off of what @BLUE TII is saying) there are far more load sets being applied to seals in practice as opposed to in a vacuum (just heating them up). Centrifugal, side load on the cumbustion 'side' of the apex seal, not to mention bumps in the epitrochoid. Hence wanting real world tear down information rather than just whatever data a manufacturer wants to puke out.
06-10-20, 08:26 PM
#87
There is no force present inside the engine to bend soft seals back straight.
They arent bending along their beam (widest part) they are bending along the narrow width 2mm or 3mm and bending just a bit as they are still in the slots in the rotor.
The seals are only perpendicular to the housing surface at the 12, 3, 6, 9 oclock positions. Riding over the Leading spark plug bump they wear or bend on the side of the seal wear surface at an angle.
They arent bending along their beam (widest part) they are bending along the narrow width 2mm or 3mm and bending just a bit as they are still in the slots in the rotor.
The seals are only perpendicular to the housing surface at the 12, 3, 6, 9 oclock positions. Riding over the Leading spark plug bump they wear or bend on the side of the seal wear surface at an angle.
06-11-20, 10:02 PM
#92
Yes, the wandering and slightly rough idle like a steeetport.
No driveability issues besides that.
However, when they wear to a big "gap" (surface discharge like stock FD plugs) they do actually foul hard to where it feels like you lost a rotor and it takes moderate load to burn them clean again.
I am using Mazda part number 0000-10-R601-11 they call out for "S&P port, RX-7, RX-7 TT"
No driveability issues besides that.
However, when they wear to a big "gap" (surface discharge like stock FD plugs) they do actually foul hard to where it feels like you lost a rotor and it takes moderate load to burn them clean again.
I am using Mazda part number 0000-10-R601-11 they call out for "S&P port, RX-7, RX-7 TT"
03-20-22, 05:38 AM
#97
Banned
Anyone have new experience to share?
Have any mixed-use track and street cars been torn down?
Have any mixed-use track and street cars been torn down?
04-29-22, 09:47 PM
#99
I put iRotary's in my rebuild. They ran great during break-in. Went to dyno to tune and all 6 warped. Been talking with them about this. Currently no idea as to why. Engine looked fine upon teardown and tuning logs don't show any issues with detonation, etc. literally a fricking mystery to which no one has answers to...
Last edited by Djseto; 04-29-22 at 10:19 PM.