psyaddict

lets say i want to rev past 8500 rpm, on a street driven engine, is my only apex seal choice ceramics?

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

ive seen dyno sheets past 10,500 on stock seals...

psyaddict

yes, i think revving is not the problem, but how does that affect the housings? does it make these bouncing marks?

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

dunno, saw the dyno sheet probably 3-4 years ago and the engine is still together.

i should also say that this was a PP engine and it made peak power at more like 8,500, so shift point is probably under 9500.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (2)

well if you’re asking about an NA engine the Iannetti ceramic has a stellar reputation for optimum sealing, minimum wear, and overall durability. Yeah they cost, but in the long haul it doesn’t take many new rotors or housings to offset the difference. I suppose it just depends what your goal is. Sometimes pro parts are hard to justify for non-pro use.

kind of hoping someone will post feedback on the i-Racing seals at some point. They are getting positive feedback from high end/pro builders, just not on here yet that I’ve seen. It’s not like some mega-buck product that might get hyped up to generate a sales profit. The price seems reasonable if they perform as suggested.

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dguy

iTrader: (8)

Unfortunately all of the 'pro builders' that I've spoken to via phone or in person can only give me either anecdotal or drag racing evidence. For me I need to see what these look like after either a season of real road racing, or, 10k on a car I know to be driven like a moron on the street.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (2)

well I don’t really care to get into a tit for tat forum battle over it and just waited to point out that I totally get where you’re coming from, but that’s no proof of anything either. The main thing is somebody has to first even if it’s not you. And I’d like to see some results, but am not offended if you don’t agree with my optimism. No different than me trusting completely in God and someone else calling him imaginary. Ok, believe what you want. I have a set, but am not in the position to put them to the test yet. Still trying to get an NA RX8 back together at the moment on limited time availability.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

to your point we haven't heard anything bad yet. incomplete data set, but if they were complete garbage we would know by now.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

I'm not trying to start anything either, can definitely see your reasoning. Honestly, if I had the means, I would probably go that way as well, but I don't have the money to rebuild the engine again if something goes wrong. Hopefully everything goes well for you, and it seems like it probably will. Good luck, and let us know how things go once you get them in.

dguy

iTrader: (8)

Why are we stepping on eggshells here? :P I don't see anyone keyboard cowboying or trashing anyones opinions. I'm honestly hoping that someone can provide some real evidence of either longevity or strength or something to the effect of making them a reasonable alternative to either stock or ceramics with Mazda approval, or, so long as its transparent where there are drawbacks etc (hell, it'd be great if they were only positives, I dunno).

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Not meaning to step on eggshells, that was my honest opinion.

The more I look into them, the more I'm leaning towards them. The fact that Mazda sells them (which I didn't realize when I first posted) is a HUGE vote of confidence. For some reason I thought they were 500 per rotor, but 500 per set is not much different from anyone else. My budget has already spiraled out of control, so whats another $1-200?

TomU

iTrader: (11)

What "them" are you referring to?

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Sorry, taking about the I-rotary Seals.

TomU

iTrader: (11)

Think they are too new for any data points. I'm plan to try them, but it's on faith they will last longer than the RX Parts seals (for track duty).

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

What happened with the RX Parts seals? That's another I'm looking at. Mine's more street oriented than track, though.

TomU

iTrader: (11)

Warped. Don’t think they hold up well for track duty. They should be fine for the street

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

What egt's where you seeing? I don't like that they are soft enough to warp, especially since I tend to run on the lean side + neg split around town for mileage which raises temps. I suppose that's still not the same as track dut , but still... I just wish there was more data about long term street use on the I-rotary seals. I really like them, just a little gun-shy without that data.

TomU

iTrader: (11)

Was not logging EGTs, but my guess is they were high. Still have stock twins

There is probably more data on the RX Parts seals than I-Rotary's. I know IRP puts them in a lot of their builds. I think they may be fine for street duty, but i would not recommend them for the track (occasional track days, maybe)

I plan to go with the I-Rotary's. On faith

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

IRP is where I've seen a lot of data on the RX parts seals, and he has stated they have builds with over 20k miles. Yours is the first "negative" thing I've seen on them, and that's in an extreme scenario that I won't ever really be seeing. This build is probably going to see ~350 hp and at most a couple track days a year (if that), so the RX parts look to be the way to go for now. Whenever I get a 2nd FC and build another 500+ HP motor, though, I will definitely be going with the i-rotary seals.

TomU

iTrader: (11)

Refer back to post #35 on this thread

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Ah, thanks for that , not sure how I missed it. That was still basically the same problem, though - warping from too much heat, and they did it after a couple track days. I also noticed from the post above that, though, that the 2.5 Oz of premix was his recommendation for alcohol, with less for regular track or street. That makes me feel better about those seals for street use.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (2)

well *most* street-use engines likely aren’t going to see sustained high rpm use and resulting sustained temperatures as a track car would

but you can always add more if going to the track or decide to endanger yourself and others out in public.


.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Its been a few years, but I do enjoy track days, though I've never done one on a track where I even saw 100 MPH. I hadn't originally been building this car for that, anyway, but the more I'm thinking about it the more I'm wanting to in the future. I'd LOVE to do a track day at COTA (F1 track in Austin, TX), and that would definitely have some susteaing high RPMs, but its very pricey. We've got a couple other road courses (Driveway Austin and Harris Hill) within a reasonable drive of me that are more affordable, but they don't have much in the way of straights. Still, I think its definitely something I should plan as a possibility.

TomU

iTrader: (11)

You don't need long straights. Whenever you're off the brakes, you're on the throttle. A track day is generally four 20 min sessions, sometimes 30 mins. That's up to 2 hours of brutal conditions on your car

One thing worth noting is if your car is forced induction or NA. If it's NA, exhaust temps should be lower

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

on a stock ECU this is true. the limit is the cat temp, it can only be 650c before the cat starts melting. the turbo car has the turbo to soak up some heat, so the engine can actually run more optimally. remember Mazda had to warranty the cat for 7 years or 70k miles (hilariously the last FD sold new was out of warranty in 2012...)

my last S5 NA, stock, with the EGT in the manifold in place of the O2, hit a peak of 710c, the turbo car is an FD REW with an FC turbo, EGT is preturbo and it will hit 850-900c. if the NA is uncorked though, i would expect EGT to be about the same 900c