Hey, I'm somewhat new...

I used to have a RX-8 a couple of years ago and a 99 miata as a project car.

The miata was supposed to get a fully built BP engine (stock) - forged H beam rods, forged pistons, billet oil pump. I did all this and now I bought a S5 that will get rebuilt, it was taken out of a running car.


Problem I am having is that the 13b does not fit in the miata because of the oil pan shape and location of the engine.

I was wondering how to setup a dry sump not using a MFR unit.

This is what I was thinking for a oil pick up. <- https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...57&postcount=6

And then just make the oil pan out of a 3/4" piece of aluminum.

for an oil pump, I was thinking,


idk if a 3 stage works or should I go with a 4 stage?

Also, how should I route the oil around the engine?
I saw a engine somewhere where the oil lines were routed to each rotor housing?


I know i have tons of questions, also was wondering how to do a fuel setup with a surge tank? what pump should I use for that?

It is all going into a 1999 miata, TII transmission and diff, full 5 lug conversion, cage, fuel cell.

I was thinking about using a gilmer pulley setup from rotary works and maybe using a longer belt to drive the dry sump pump.

For engine management, I will be using megasquirt-II v3.0.

Any and all help is appreciated.

 

stage 7

 

are you saying I should get a 7 Stage pump?

 

As far as which oil pump, you've got me there. But you're right, the easiest method without going MFR front cover will be a gilmer style driving a side-mounted pump. If you look at some of the drag racers using mechanical fuel pumps for meth, you'll get an idea of placement and size.

Now, depending on your power goals, how high you want to be revving the engine, etc., you can either use the dry sump to feed the stock oil circulation path (entering at the rear iron, using stock regulator), or you can take the time to modify it to supply each stationary gear bearing in parallel. To get a better idea of what I'm talking about, see this thread on oil mods: https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/oiling-system-mods-lots-pics-745594/ And you can make up your mind for yourself on how far you want to take it.

For fuel pump, again it's gonna come down to power goals and intended use. Are you going turbo or N/A? To feed the fuel surge tank, you can go with most in-tank fuel pumps, since it won't be pressurizing the line. At very worst a Walbro in-tank will be more than adequate for a 2L or more tank. For the surge tank feeding the fuel rails, the Bosch 044 is my personal choice, but will again depend on power goals. You could always run 2 if you need more fuel, or a different in-line pump if you are staying N/A.

 

Its going to have a GT35r turbo, medium street port, and I was thinking about using a fuel setup, similar to what Big!l is using on his race car

 

I have been talking to Pineapple racing for a while about this project.

I was wondering, do I need a 3 or 4 stage pump or will a 2 stage be good?

I am thinking about feeding both rotors separately??

 

Resurrecting this project from the darkness of the garage and random shelves in the basement.

I figured since I have a new daily and a car that will do decent in the "street scene" I no longer have to worry about the 99NB going out on the street all that often and I was researching a peripheral port with a gt35.
I have the walbro 400lph in the tank, but I am considering taking the OEM tank out and replacing it with a fuel cell, the whole fuel system is -8an nylon braided and aluminum 3/8" hardline under the car.

The 400lph walbro will be feeding a 2gallon surge tank and then from there I don't know what fuel pump to use.

As mentioned earlier, I am going with a dry sump with a 1" thick 7075 plate acting as a oil pan that will be internally scavenged and a 4stage dry sump pump will be the heart of the system (unless someone thinks I should do something different). I think a 3gallon tank in the passengers footwell should be sufficient, then there will be 2 oil cooler in the front under the headlights/next to a v-mounted intercooler/radiator.

I should post some photos to make this less boring...


Intentions for this car is to have as much fun at open track days as possible.

 

I need help on the peripheral port design.... I figured the MFR version would be a good starting point, does anyone have any measurements on how high the center of the intake opening is?

How should I feed the oil? Should I feed the bearings individually or should I just use the stock oil feed?

 

the MFR engines used the stock oiling although they may have had larger passages. adding a feed for the front bearing isn't a bad idea and its not very hard to do.

the later intake opens @80BTDC and closes @80ATDC.

 

I found the sae#900032 and according to that the ID of the intake runner is 46mm, it opens at 80*BTDC and closes at 80*ABDC and has a D shape port on the surface of the housing with the flat part being on the opening side, and a surface are or 25cm^2. I guess I'll have to get a degree wheel and figure this out...


The oiling system.... is there a write up anywhere? I can't seem to find it and have been looking for it for quite a while now since I knew it was around.

 

To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure going full PP with a GT35r is the best idea. First off, a full PP with that MFR timing will need to rev quite high to make use of the power band, and the GT35 compressor, and more importantly the turbine will not handle the amount of flow it's going to want.

Secondly, from what I've read from N/A tuning, full PP's tend to be pretty picky about exhaust backpressure. Putting a (relatively) small-framed turbo on a manifold inches from the port is what I would classify a restriction. IMO it would be difficult to tune, drive, and top-end performance won't even be all that exciting. Maybe you can prove me wrong.

If you are dead set on the GT35r, I would go no more than a half-bridge on the engine. Hell, even stockports tend to drive quite nicely with a 35r. You will still make good power, but within the capabilities of that turbo. Plus you won't have to build the internals to spin to over 10K rpm, you could make the power you need well by 8,500 -9,000.

If you are dead set on going full PP, you should look more towards a large T4 or even better a T6-framed turbo to minimize the backpressure on the engine; it will be laggy, but more geared towards the top-end performance of a full PP engine. This won't be well suited for a road-race car, and nowhere near close to an autoX car, but better for drag racing.

I posted earlier up to a thread with oiling mods. Disregard those about stock oil pump, but everything else is relevant. https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=745594

 

i agree Pport+turbo= bad combo. there is too much overlap. a turbo would be better off with stock ports, or a mild street port on the intakes.

so pick one or the other, a PP engine in a miata would be awesome.

 

Its been done both ways, but IMO a 13b pp -non turbo makes for an easier swap into a miata where you don't have a lot of room for intercooler plumbing. PP engines can make 280rwhp with 48 ida carbs and can push 300hp+ with a well tuned TBI setup. The miata gearbox is a good close ratio gearbox and this combination would be much better for an autocross car IMO.

 

Thank you everyone for your input.

I guess I will go ahead and not "waste" money on a turbo and just tune it nicely in N/A form.

Should I clearance the sides of the rotors to be able to spin it above 9500rpm?
I am going with ceramic apex seals from pineapple.

Also, if I ever decide to try and go with a turbo I can always make a manifold on a mock up engine and go from there. If after I install it and I will be unhappy with the performance of the engine in turbo form, I will always be able to go back to N/A.

This car will never see autoX, I told myself I would try autoX, I did and I will never go back. It is a waste of time, I get to sit there all day and get maybe a total of 15minutes of actual driving. So, this car will mostly see track days and possibly will get taken out on the streets every now and then.

If I am going N/A... How long should I make the Exhaust runners (500-3700mm??)?

I know the intake according to that article#900032 should be 240mm long in the 48mm diameter and then 130mm in a "cone" going up in diameter to 60mm. (Am I reading it correct?)

Should I make my life hell and make the intake port a D shaped port or go with a round port?


I will not be using a miata transmission, I'm leaning towards a TII trans or a T5... which one is better?
The miata also has a TII rear diff.

 

I was finally able to get on xtreme rotaries website.

They post their specs for the peripheral port,

For Turbocharged applications:
Opening:118 ATDC
Closing: 168 ATDC

For N/A applications:
Opening: 90 ATDC
Closing: 165 ATDC

Has anyone ever used these specs?

 

just going down the list....

if you buy new rotors, they will be clearanced already, if you are using used parts, i would do the measurements and see where you are, you might not need to do anything, especially if you use a tighter bearing clearance.

for the exhaust, as you can tell it matters! i would suggest building 500mm headers and then making sections after that, and trying it on a dyno.

for the intake, if you're doing Mazda's timing, then you should use Mazda's intake lengths too. they should work together. if you had someplace in the intake to be able to change lengths a little, this would be good too. with the carb setups we can run spacers.

a round port should be fine, it should be less picky about the exhaust, and make a little more midrange vs less top end

i don't know about the T5, but the T2 trans is worthless behind a P port, not only are the ratios HORRIBLE, but the P port will shred the T2 trans. i have a friend with a P port in an FC, and he goes thru 1 trans an event, you'd be better off with the miata trans, it'll live longer

Rx8 trans might be an option too, it has the same gearing as the competition trans, with a granny gear 1st

 

Okay, Thanks. I guess I will go with mazdas specifications on the PP and intake/exhaust.

As far as transmissions go. How is the T2 (TII trans) worthless?
I destroyed 2 stock miata transmissions, one was a 5spd out of a 99 and one was a 6 speed out of a 03. And this was on a stock 1.8l with just an intake, exhaust, and MegaSquirt.

 

the Xtreme stuff might work really well, but you know its an unknown, and the mazda stuff is engineered to work really well together

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2fjsnWgHmk

see how bad the gearing is? that's with a pretty mild port too. if you listen you can hear it grind into second. the next trans i think broke 3rd, and the one after that i forget, but its POS...

 

Why does that car seem soooooo slow?

I will go and buy a T5, I know damian (dela huerta?) is running a t5 or was but his was a dog box gforce geared. But many mustangs run those transmissions for with higher power.

I'm also tempted to sacrifice a bit and sell off a car to buy a 20b and an FD.

Darn decisions.... I guess two PP'd cars will be sitting in my garage. but first I'll finish the miata and get the FD sometime mid next year.

So.... offers with FD rollers are welcome..

 

I'll sell you my dry sump pan, the one In my sig. Pm me if interested, I never finished my project.. I actuay have a miata now too lol

 

Chaotic. Unfortunately your pan wouldn't work for me. I need a 1" 7075 plate.
But I could use your an fitting if you don't want too much for them.

Also, do you need megasquirt for your car? I have one cheap.

 

its just a small PP, full interior etc. the car's street driven, and the gearing is wrong

 

I may in the future, I'll let you knoW

 

I should be able to work on the PP housings on Saturday night or Sunday. But it all depends on a few other things, not just my will and want.

 

Weather is semi-nice once again and it's time to bring this car back out of hibernation.

Will a MS-II v3.0 work well as an ecu for this build or should I find more money and buy a "big name" ecu?

I have also joined forces with FORTY:PSI to make this build not as hard on the wallet.

I have purchased the paint as well so that should motivate me a bit to actually try and make this build happen slightly faster. I've been putting it off, changing stuff in my mind about it for a long time, I think I have finally came up with a solid goal that I want to achieve and I will stick with it.

I am trying to sell my TII transmission if anyone needs it?