Rotary engine breakthroughs??
10-29-13, 11:32 PM
#1
Boricua
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Rotary engine breakthroughs??
So I was looking through YouTube the other day and happened on a video by Autoline Network entitled "rotary engine breakthrough".
In the video the guy has a couple of really interesting ideas, that seem to be backed up by common sense and physics. I don't know if anyone has seen this and didn't really know what to type in the search bar to see if anyone else had posted about it so I thought I would ask.
So watch the video and tell me what you think and if you know anyone that might be able to do some of these things.
Ps if I can figure out how to post the YouTube link from my phone I will, but until than just look up " rotary engine breakthrough" and it's the first link.
In the video the guy has a couple of really interesting ideas, that seem to be backed up by common sense and physics. I don't know if anyone has seen this and didn't really know what to type in the search bar to see if anyone else had posted about it so I thought I would ask.
So watch the video and tell me what you think and if you know anyone that might be able to do some of these things.
Ps if I can figure out how to post the YouTube link from my phone I will, but until than just look up " rotary engine breakthrough" and it's the first link.
10-29-13, 11:55 PM
#2
I doubt Mazda overlooked these possible design features in the 30+ years that they been producing the "wonkel" engine.lol. If neither Mazdatrix nor Racing Beat aren't doing it then its provably not worth looking into.
The idea of having a smaller hole for the leading spark plug seems *** backwards. It'll take away from the kernel(?) and won't produce a strong enough spark I'd say, especially if you apply the second feature where he moves the chamber on the rotor. You're probably going to have a super rich area there and that plug will just end up having a rich misfire. And my guess is that if you try to tune to compensate for a rich misfire, you'll just end up going too lean on the trailing end on the rotor as its compressing and easily detonate or worse.
I think that video was just made for the views and to get ppl to talk about it. Me being one of those -_- *sigh*
The idea of having a smaller hole for the leading spark plug seems *** backwards. It'll take away from the kernel(?) and won't produce a strong enough spark I'd say, especially if you apply the second feature where he moves the chamber on the rotor. You're probably going to have a super rich area there and that plug will just end up having a rich misfire. And my guess is that if you try to tune to compensate for a rich misfire, you'll just end up going too lean on the trailing end on the rotor as its compressing and easily detonate or worse.
I think that video was just made for the views and to get ppl to talk about it. Me being one of those -_- *sigh*
10-30-13, 12:43 PM
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Boricua
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Lol I'm guessing by you post this has been covered and I hate to bring up things that have already been proven to be bad ideas. However listening to the guy it does make some sense. Your expertise on the subject would be appreciated sir, or a link to previous threads discussing this topic would be appreciated also.
10-30-13, 01:04 PM
#5
if you do a search for "breakthrough" here you will come up with about 6 threads on the same subject with the video.
no proof has ever been presented, no logs, no videos of a running engine, nothing. anyone can hack up some parts and say they are onto something, without anything to back up your claims then it is all just hot air(pun intended).
if it really worked then he could make money off his idea, so far he hasn't attempted to.
i can also guarantee that mazda has spent countless hours doing exactly what he claims works but they obviously saw some flaws to his reasoning. the R26B for example used 3 plugs but the 3rd plug was moved to a radically retarded position in the housing, not moved to a radically leading position and that is mazda's most famous design. the directional rotor pockets were also ditched long ago, netting almost no benefits, even the most current engine(13B-MSP) uses symmetrical pockets still after the design change was ditched 2 decades prior.
granted mazda doesn't know everything and that is apparent but in this case i feel they have exhausted every possibility.
the idea of relieving the spark plug pocket makes sense but that is why mazda uses unique plugs to fill in the gap. people have even played with adjusting that gap to lessen the pocket further and the results were both good and bad at the same time.
the theory that firing the plug at the tip of the rotor doesn't necessarily mean that it will increase efficiency. gas expands when it is ignited so the force is weakest at the point of ignition. most people have had the best results firing the plug furthest from the rotating tip of the rotor(trailing plug first, negative split) versus what he explains as increasing efficiency. this may be the reasoning for the third plug in the R26B design, but i'm fairly sure it is more for scavenging than for power, to increase the economy so that the engine could make less pits in the endurance challenge.
the parts he presented also appeared unused.. or rather untested(no carbon on welds or friction surfaces), simply thrown together and theories based.
no proof has ever been presented, no logs, no videos of a running engine, nothing. anyone can hack up some parts and say they are onto something, without anything to back up your claims then it is all just hot air(pun intended).
if it really worked then he could make money off his idea, so far he hasn't attempted to.
i can also guarantee that mazda has spent countless hours doing exactly what he claims works but they obviously saw some flaws to his reasoning. the R26B for example used 3 plugs but the 3rd plug was moved to a radically retarded position in the housing, not moved to a radically leading position and that is mazda's most famous design. the directional rotor pockets were also ditched long ago, netting almost no benefits, even the most current engine(13B-MSP) uses symmetrical pockets still after the design change was ditched 2 decades prior.
granted mazda doesn't know everything and that is apparent but in this case i feel they have exhausted every possibility.
the idea of relieving the spark plug pocket makes sense but that is why mazda uses unique plugs to fill in the gap. people have even played with adjusting that gap to lessen the pocket further and the results were both good and bad at the same time.
the theory that firing the plug at the tip of the rotor doesn't necessarily mean that it will increase efficiency. gas expands when it is ignited so the force is weakest at the point of ignition. most people have had the best results firing the plug furthest from the rotating tip of the rotor(trailing plug first, negative split) versus what he explains as increasing efficiency. this may be the reasoning for the third plug in the R26B design, but i'm fairly sure it is more for scavenging than for power, to increase the economy so that the engine could make less pits in the endurance challenge.
the parts he presented also appeared unused.. or rather untested(no carbon on welds or friction surfaces), simply thrown together and theories based.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 10-30-13 at 01:26 PM.
10-30-13, 02:20 PM
#6
Boricua
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I was unaware that mazda or nsu ever used a directional pocket on any rotary engine design. However the part of the video that I saw most credit was the slotted spark plug holes. To me this seems to be a better design than just having a large hole for compression to escape from and would keep the combusting gases from back tracking. Yes I can see where the slotting could cause problems with the kernel effect of the spark.
Idk I just thought at the very least it might get peoples creative juices flowing because it just seems like what you can do to the actual engine is played out.
Idk I just thought at the very least it might get peoples creative juices flowing because it just seems like what you can do to the actual engine is played out.
10-30-13, 02:25 PM
#7
if you take a stock spark plug and place it in the housing the bowl is nearly eliminated, remove the gasket and it is virtually nonexistent.
pic stolen from elsewhere here on the forum
you can see the directional pockets, granted not as extreme but there is also balancing effects to lopsiding a rotor. people have flipped the rotors, tried installing them sideways, everything, the differences were negligible.
the slit might be more beneficial to those running standard armature plugs versus surface discharge plugs, where i see a lot more apex seal lifting. but the ignition being obstructed would probably be more harmful than anything, this is noticed in how an engine runs solely on trailing plugs.
pic stolen from elsewhere here on the forum
you can see the directional pockets, granted not as extreme but there is also balancing effects to lopsiding a rotor. people have flipped the rotors, tried installing them sideways, everything, the differences were negligible.
the slit might be more beneficial to those running standard armature plugs versus surface discharge plugs, where i see a lot more apex seal lifting. but the ignition being obstructed would probably be more harmful than anything, this is noticed in how an engine runs solely on trailing plugs.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 10-30-13 at 02:30 PM.
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10-30-13, 03:12 PM
#8
Boricua
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Ya I see the directional pocket, what I meant was I had never heard of either company having an extremely directional pocket like shown in the video. However I see what you mean when you say it could cause balancing problems.
Also I've cut the washers off my plugs and checked for clearances and pocket depth. Yes it removes most of any pocket that forms however it still doesn't seal off the individual rotor sides. But the nature of the rotary beast might leave this as a permanent problem for us.
Also I've cut the washers off my plugs and checked for clearances and pocket depth. Yes it removes most of any pocket that forms however it still doesn't seal off the individual rotor sides. But the nature of the rotary beast might leave this as a permanent problem for us.
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