Rotary Aviation seals, a 10,000 km report.....
03-27-04, 12:37 AM
#77
Originally posted by 88IntegraLS
I'm concerned about these reports, but I also know that RA never designed these seals for 400hp or 13K rpm, which were the conditions of the two engines that have failed because of them
I'm concerned about these reports, but I also know that RA never designed these seals for 400hp or 13K rpm, which were the conditions of the two engines that have failed because of them
Where did you get that info from? I never heard anything about those seals not being able to support 400hp.
03-27-04, 04:12 PM
#78
Displacement > Boost
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RA seals are designed for NA aircraft conversion 13B engines. No NA engine makes 400hp unless it is a 3 rotor. No aircraft conversion runs above 8k rpm for very long.
03-27-04, 04:24 PM
#79
Place your ad here...
Directly from RA's website:
"Our seals are running in hundreds of race and street cars throughout the world, including some of the top rotary drag car running as much as 35 psi of boost!"
According to them, they should be able to handle high horsepower applications
"Our seals are running in hundreds of race and street cars throughout the world, including some of the top rotary drag car running as much as 35 psi of boost!"
According to them, they should be able to handle high horsepower applications
03-27-04, 07:52 PM
#80
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Originally posted by 88IntegraLS
RA seals are designed for NA aircraft conversion 13B engines. No NA engine makes 400hp unless it is a 3 rotor. No aircraft conversion runs above 8k rpm for very long.
RA seals are designed for NA aircraft conversion 13B engines. No NA engine makes 400hp unless it is a 3 rotor. No aircraft conversion runs above 8k rpm for very long.
03-27-04, 08:45 PM
#81
Learned alot | Alot to go
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They are not recommending them because they are still 'new' and im guessing they want to be DAMN sure they work well before someone pop's a seal at 10,000feet and comes quickly plumiting to the ground
03-27-04, 09:26 PM
#83
Former Rx7 *****
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Originally posted by Rotary Experiment Seven
What about cryotreating the rotors? I have a source to do it locally and might give it a shot. If the rotor is made harder it should combat the problem if indeed the seal is too hard wears the rotor. After all, you want the seals to wear, not the rotor or housings. Also, how much breakin time did you give the motor? From my experiences only a couple hundred miles is needed for stock seals, but I was going to give the ra seals about a thousand to set.
What about cryotreating the rotors? I have a source to do it locally and might give it a shot. If the rotor is made harder it should combat the problem if indeed the seal is too hard wears the rotor. After all, you want the seals to wear, not the rotor or housings. Also, how much breakin time did you give the motor? From my experiences only a couple hundred miles is needed for stock seals, but I was going to give the ra seals about a thousand to set.
03-27-04, 11:25 PM
#84
Freedoms worth a buck o'5
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Yeah, engines apart..................................
..
Anyway, seal groove measures .80-81mmmm
Apex seal thickness is anywhere from 1.84-1.88
Apex seal hieght is down to .288 , my other new Ra seals measure .296-.298 depending on the seal meaured, at the small spring area, warpage with new seal is .002..
Right where the seal wall transitions to the rounded edge is the razor sharp edge that catches your finger nail pretty good....
Bottom line is they are worn out, and the rotor is now too...
..Anyway, seal groove measures .80-81mmmm
Apex seal thickness is anywhere from 1.84-1.88
Apex seal hieght is down to .288 , my other new Ra seals measure .296-.298 depending on the seal meaured, at the small spring area, warpage with new seal is .002..
Right where the seal wall transitions to the rounded edge is the razor sharp edge that catches your finger nail pretty good....
Bottom line is they are worn out, and the rotor is now too...
03-27-04, 11:38 PM
#86
Freedoms worth a buck o'5
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I got more pics coming when I am not so beat... the amount worn off the seal in 10,000 km's is unreal...if you sit a used one and new one in a row, the difference is huge..
Basically, when the motor was cold it got to the point that it was right on the edge of the tolerances, and by the looks of it, when it got hot, things expanded enough to put over the edge of sealing.. Judging by how dramatic it was, I would say the RA seals don't expand anywhere as much as the rotors do, or other seals for that matter...
The housings are like 2 mirrors, with thin fine wear lines in the chrome...
I hope I just got a bum set of seals, I am gonna send em back to RA so they can see them....Max
Basically, when the motor was cold it got to the point that it was right on the edge of the tolerances, and by the looks of it, when it got hot, things expanded enough to put over the edge of sealing.. Judging by how dramatic it was, I would say the RA seals don't expand anywhere as much as the rotors do, or other seals for that matter...
The housings are like 2 mirrors, with thin fine wear lines in the chrome...
I hope I just got a bum set of seals, I am gonna send em back to RA so they can see them....Max
03-28-04, 08:08 AM
#88
We make our own 2mm springs (but nor 3mm). So far have had only one report of spring problem (spring collapsing, low compression) on an engine running 20 PSI boost with NOX injection. We're investigating the cause now but no conclusions yet. Since our primary use is in aircraft, we get no experience with NOX and rely on you rotor heads out there for results on this.
BTW, the aircraft restriction on the apex seals has been lifted and there are many sets flying now.
Tracy Crook, RWS
BTW, the aircraft restriction on the apex seals has been lifted and there are many sets flying now.
Tracy Crook, RWS
Originally posted by chuck8313BTSDS
Max
Just wonder what type of springs you recieved with the RA seals? Mazda or something RA made.
chuck
Max
Just wonder what type of springs you recieved with the RA seals? Mazda or something RA made.
chuck
03-28-04, 02:09 PM
#91
Originally posted by rzograbian
so whats at fault here? is it the apex seals for sure?
so whats at fault here? is it the apex seals for sure?
Regardless of all that I think it safe to say Rotary Aviation has conducted themselves well here and have and are trying to get to the bottom of the problem. I ahve not tlaked with them so I will allow Max to explain what RA is doing about the issue.
03-28-04, 02:14 PM
#92
Laying Down Rotary Law
Originally posted by rzograbian
hey Tracy, what if his engine's problem is at fault of the apex seals. then what? will you pay for the next rebuild?
hey Tracy, what if his engine's problem is at fault of the apex seals. then what? will you pay for the next rebuild?
Does Mazda give you that kinda warranty?
does Hurley?
does Atkins?
They clearly state
If you use New Housings they will give you life time
warranty
They are great people
there customer service is par to none
03-28-04, 02:35 PM
#93
Rotary Freak
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no im not crazy, thats why i spent $1200 more to get new rotor housings for these seals because they were reccomended and for their warrenty. they better hold up
