Rotary Aviation apex seal report
03-02-05, 07:22 PM
#51
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Originally Posted by cjr
How do you get 8bar readings from a comp test with ceramics? Every car with ceramics that i have seen comp test results has been below 6.5bar. At a rough guess that is 5 cars. Not a lot I agree but wow what great compression. When you put mazda OEM seals in you get 8 bar Nooo prob.
In my FC with second hand 2 peice Mazda tips( and everything else is second hand) i am getting 7.5 bar. This engine has been seriously abused. And I mean seriously abused
In my FC with second hand 2 peice Mazda tips( and everything else is second hand) i am getting 7.5 bar. This engine has been seriously abused. And I mean seriously abused
I have never seen either product read much less than multi piece OEM type seals.
Its a common misconception that the one piece seal is heaps less in compression thatn a multi piece, this is pure rubbish & facts and testing show minimal differences Two piece seals for example have end clearance on them as well mind you
and the effective area for gas leakage for either type due to end cleance is relatively small....you get far more leakage across the leading rubbing edge surface and its interface with the rotor housing than you ever do due to side clearnce. This is real noticable on cars with poor rotor housings or seals that are not machined correctly (non true out of tolerance leading edge!)I along with many others have never had a problem with ceramic seals, have had HEAPS of problems with highly stressed OEM seals shitting them selves as soon as the going gets tough or the many after market "steel" seals that turn to **** after a few runs if conditions are not perfect.
To get 5 bar you have other problems going on, major ones....
Maybe buy some NRS product of me next time
03-02-05, 09:53 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by Manolis_D
1). he's not talking about the springs buddy... look at the housings - they're scored. springs have a whole lot of nothing to do with that (especially if they're too weak)
2). Read the first post again... does that sound like 'crying'? What's your problem? Do you have a personal interest in RA or something? What's wrong with somebody posting some data on the forum?
Those housings as-is look pretty trashed, and while I wouldn't personally have used sandpaper on them, there's nothing to lose here.
The RA seals do not appear to be made out of a material suitable for direct contact with the housing surface. There's a reason mazda spent so much money testing, and even then it took a few tries to get it right. If this was the only case with scored housings, I'd be suspicious that something else caused the problem, however a few people have posted similar findings...
2). Read the first post again... does that sound like 'crying'? What's your problem? Do you have a personal interest in RA or something? What's wrong with somebody posting some data on the forum?
Those housings as-is look pretty trashed, and while I wouldn't personally have used sandpaper on them, there's nothing to lose here.
The RA seals do not appear to be made out of a material suitable for direct contact with the housing surface. There's a reason mazda spent so much money testing, and even then it took a few tries to get it right. If this was the only case with scored housings, I'd be suspicious that something else caused the problem, however a few people have posted similar findings...
do your homework, quit arguing on the internet
and don't accuse me of arguing, i'm not arguing with anyone, i'm questioning his hypothesis, what's wrong with querying a logical statement? afraid it will be illogical?
03-02-05, 10:49 PM
#54
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Chatter leaves lines across the housing, It doesn't score housings all the way around their perimeter... How many miles are on your engine? How's compression?
03-02-05, 10:52 PM
#55
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Chatter leaves lines across the housing (the 'short' way, from one side to the other), It doesn't score housings all the way around their perimeter... How many miles are on your engine? How's compression? I don't see any bashing, just some pictures of a motor built with RA seals 
03-02-05, 11:39 PM
#56
Originally Posted by Manolis_D
Chatter leaves lines across the housing (the 'short' way, from one side to the other), It doesn't score housings all the way around their perimeter...
oh yea btw oh mr. smart *** boostgasm. I'll repeat myself once more for you since it seems like you have trouble with picking things up the first time. I called rotary aviation and talked to them. THEY told me the seals I had were fine and the ones that THEY recalled were made AFTER mine. Once more just in case... THEY (rotary aviation) said my seals were made BEFORE the ones that were reported to have problems.
Also if you did your homework you would know that the ones that were recalled had a different problem. No one reported them as to ruining their housings. The problem was that they expended with heat too much and got stuck inside the rotor groove causing the engine to lose compression. Once the engine cooled down compression would restore. I had a totally different problem.
03-03-05, 12:14 AM
#57
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Originally Posted by boostgasm
oh and I have no ties to RA, other than I am currently running their seals and do not appreciate people bashing a good product with **** poor evaluations
How do you know what your engine's housings look like without having the engine apart? You say it's running fine, and so does mine. I reassembled it with the same (reused) RA seals and scored housings, and it's stronger than ever. All we're saying here is that RA seals might cause scoring of rotor housings. That is a claim that can not be verified unless the engine is apart.
03-03-05, 12:15 AM
#58
Originally Posted by boostgasm
You come on here like you want some type of support or a shoulder to cry on, trying to warn others of your misfortune, but you are really not an ideal candidate for evaluating the integrity of a seal. And what qualifies "like new" versus "new" on rotor housings? You used 320grit sandpaper on your rotor housings? Are you kidding me?
I thought the same thing about sanding the housings, but after hearing it from several expierenced engine builders it didnt sound like a bad idea. I mean what did I have to lose? They actually came out damn good, ill try to get some pics of them before the engine goes back together this weekend. You will not be able to tell anything happend to them. If I sold them to you, you would probably look at them and say they are damn good housings.
03-03-05, 03:28 PM
#62
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all good then. RA will take those back and give you a new set of heat treated springs. this is old news though.
anyhoo, they fixed the problem and the springs are fine these days. it was something that had to do with them not being heat treated or tempered or whatever--i didn't look too deep into it, but they'd flatten with the heat. the new springs do not do that.
anyhoo, they fixed the problem and the springs are fine these days. it was something that had to do with them not being heat treated or tempered or whatever--i didn't look too deep into it, but they'd flatten with the heat. the new springs do not do that.
03-03-05, 08:14 PM
#63
NETSEVEN,
i have seen those kind of marks on stock mazda engines with stock seals and stock springs, right now i have a 1993 engine apart that has the same marks but no indentaions. i would not definitely say it only happens with those RA seals.
i have seen those kind of marks on stock mazda engines with stock seals and stock springs, right now i have a 1993 engine apart that has the same marks but no indentaions. i would not definitely say it only happens with those RA seals.
03-04-05, 02:57 AM
#66
Originally Posted by GUITARJUNKIE28
all good then. RA will take those back and give you a new set of heat treated springs. this is old news though.
anyhoo, they fixed the problem and the springs are fine these days. it was something that had to do with them not being heat treated or tempered or whatever--i didn't look too deep into it, but they'd flatten with the heat. the new springs do not do that.
anyhoo, they fixed the problem and the springs are fine these days. it was something that had to do with them not being heat treated or tempered or whatever--i didn't look too deep into it, but they'd flatten with the heat. the new springs do not do that.
03-04-05, 04:11 AM
#67
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good review net seven. Now there are other people saying that they had the same problems as you eccept you were nice enough to let everyone know your situation. Thanks. Hey boostgasm when you tear your engine down make sure you write a review. Then if you have the same problem as net seven, we can come to a conclusion for these seals. But if u have no problems with ur housing I guess u might have just proven someone wrong. So I guess no one should say anything bad about ra seals for now because you have them on your car. hahaha
03-04-05, 09:20 AM
#68
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Originally Posted by ROTARYFDTT
Do you by any chance know around what time this switch occured, and they started selling heat treated springs?
03-04-05, 10:21 AM
#69
Originally Posted by GUITARJUNKIE28
i don't know the dates, but i'm just about 100% sure that anything you order now will be just fine.
I suppose the best way to find out would be to call them.
03-09-05, 08:23 PM
#72
Rotary Enthusiast
http://www.nopistons.com/forums/inde...howtopic=47839 <--- some other opinions from nopistons
07-28-05, 02:04 AM
#73
i know this thread is slightly old, BUT...
i am running the mazda seals in my engine (and i really cant compare to the RA seals since i've never used them), but ran atkins 2piece 2mm seals in my 91 TII and in my first rebuild in my 89 TII. i recently had some problems with running lean when i went to a bigger turbo setup and detonated the atkins seals cracking the corner off a seal on the rear rotor. with the atkins seals, the break-in was really quick, full compression in ~400 miles or so, engine ran great and i was using some pretty decent housings, but not perfect or anything.
now i'm using the mazda OEM 2piece 2mm seals, and i must say, the build quality is OBVIOUSLY way higher by even just looking at the seals which is an instant plus in my book. secondly, the seals are noticably harder than the atkins seals i had previously used. the compression didnt stop rising til about 700 miles or so, which was almost double that of my previous atkins seals. the atkins seals of mine didnt take very much abuse before they went, but my first engine that came in this 89TII i have took some serious abuse on the mazda OEM 2piece 2mm seals before it went...
bottom line, atkins seals are soft, breakin fast, dont tear up the housings
mazda oem seals seem to be "just right" in the hardness of the seal, take a little longer to break in, and seal up good.
RA seals (from what i've been reading) are too hard. i've read about them having bad cold compression, scoring up housings, etc. but i've also heard of people loving them and abusing the hell out of them without breaking them...
i'd really spend the extra bucks and get the 2piece mazda OEM seals. the build quality is higher, and they seem to be "just right" in regards to everything else like cold compression, toughness, housing wear, etc...
i am running the mazda seals in my engine (and i really cant compare to the RA seals since i've never used them), but ran atkins 2piece 2mm seals in my 91 TII and in my first rebuild in my 89 TII. i recently had some problems with running lean when i went to a bigger turbo setup and detonated the atkins seals cracking the corner off a seal on the rear rotor. with the atkins seals, the break-in was really quick, full compression in ~400 miles or so, engine ran great and i was using some pretty decent housings, but not perfect or anything.
now i'm using the mazda OEM 2piece 2mm seals, and i must say, the build quality is OBVIOUSLY way higher by even just looking at the seals which is an instant plus in my book. secondly, the seals are noticably harder than the atkins seals i had previously used. the compression didnt stop rising til about 700 miles or so, which was almost double that of my previous atkins seals. the atkins seals of mine didnt take very much abuse before they went, but my first engine that came in this 89TII i have took some serious abuse on the mazda OEM 2piece 2mm seals before it went...
bottom line, atkins seals are soft, breakin fast, dont tear up the housings
mazda oem seals seem to be "just right" in the hardness of the seal, take a little longer to break in, and seal up good.
RA seals (from what i've been reading) are too hard. i've read about them having bad cold compression, scoring up housings, etc. but i've also heard of people loving them and abusing the hell out of them without breaking them...
i'd really spend the extra bucks and get the 2piece mazda OEM seals. the build quality is higher, and they seem to be "just right" in regards to everything else like cold compression, toughness, housing wear, etc...
07-28-05, 02:41 AM
#74
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Originally Posted by GUITARJUNKIE28
i don't know the dates, but i'm just about 100% sure that anything you order now will be just fine.
d'oh!!
i was wrong about that. they started putting a disclimer on their packs saying to use the stock springs for above stock hp levels.
sorry about the mis-info. i was misinformed.
