Scalliwag

I won't take any pictures of the tooling for the housing machinery, but here is a picture of the diamond disk going on the side plate resurfacing machine. That's $300 you are looking at. Sure hope it works

Scalliwag

Well I learned a good lesson. I switched over to the untouched housing and started grinding it since the other housing was coming along pretty well and I wanted to see how it would work on one that had not been ground.
Even using water mist as they recommended the rough texture popped diamonds off! The good news, there is a 30 day guarantee (unconditional!) What this does mean is that I have to grind the rough surface off with my old style tooling. The bad news is that I have to get new "old style" tooling. This adds at least one more step and a tooling change to complete them once I get the new tooling in.
The first housing had the 14 hours of grinding on it already if you have been keeping up with this. So all the rough texture was gone and there was nothing the grab the diamonds. So as long as the surface is not gritty when I start the diamond tooling it will work fine.
ARGH!!! I'm hangin' in guys... really I am.

banzaitoyota

Ouch!

Scalliwag

Well the really good news is that the diamond is being replaced for free as I expected. So no surprises there. I was sure worried about it when I made the call.
The carbide unfortunately is going to cost as much to make it again plus a little more.
I am making a change so that the area that wears is replacable without discarding a large part. They are going to try to grind down the old tooling and it may save a couple of bucks.

Cheers!

wow...did you save the diamond particles? / dust?

Scalliwag

That would have been like looking for little needles in a really big haystack. The amount of particles from the housing surface was much greater than the tooling particles.

BDC

I'm very interested in hearing about your progress on this, Mike. Let me know on any future updates. I've got a couple rotor housings I can donate to the cause if you need.

B

SnowmanSteiner

Okay yeah I just spent the past few hours reading through this entire thread. It is amazing how far you've come. From just an idea to now getting the pleasure to bitch about your machining process. As far as I'm concerned this is a great idea, and I think it will turn out wonderfully. You said earlier that you would consider looking into ceramics later, and I understand that now you are just wanting to get these housings finished and start intitial testing, and I must say ceramics are great. One of the best qualities is that specific ceramics are self lubricating, and I believe that the ceramic that Francesco Ianetti (I can never spell his name right) makes have those characteristics, so imagine those with a housing made of the same material. Good luck I can't wait to see how well this turns out for you. And I will now be keeping up with this thread so I don't have to spend hours getting caught up.

- Steiner

Scalliwag

Damn, anyone trying to read 16 pages of this thread straight through should either be commended or commited, I'm just not sure which? That would just make me numb.
I am still waiting for the replacement tooling. But any of you that know me know that I have not been sitting still.
The side plate machine is coming along fine. This has changed a few times in the design but it is overall the same. The bitch is really starting to get heavy. The challenge is going to be keeping coolant between the diamond disk and the side plate.
Fortunately since the side plates are flat the spray shop *should* be able to be much more consistant and be alot easier to work as opposed to the rotor housings.
Which brings me to what I have been doing besides working on the side plate machine.
I have been shopping for a good used thermal spray system. They are all 3 phase systems as I mentioned before.
I have a machinist that does work on the side for a lot less than the main shop he works at charges. He has several large 3 phase machines in his home shop. He uses a rotary phase convertor to run them and they work great. The phase convertor is made from a 20hp 3 phase motor that generates 3 phase output from single phase input.
So I picked up a used 25hp motor to set one up in my garage. I will be able to pick me up some better equipment such as a bigger lathe and mill as well as be ready for when a spray rig comes along for a good price.
I am not real confident that the spray shop will ever get a procedure down that will ensure a uniform finish and that bothers me. If I do it myself I only have myself to blame. I can also build a proprietary head using a stationary I.D. (yes, inside diameter) spray head and a variable speed rotating fixture to mount the housing to.
Yes, my dreams even make this motor look small

FattyCBR

So that's a 3 phase motor? Will you just hook that up to a generator to turn the shaft and then it will output the type of voltage that you need? How expensive are those? Can you use them for anything else? The reason I ask is there is a motor here that looks very similar that is being thrown out.

Scalliwag

Here are links that can explain this a lot better than me. Make damn sure you understand this before you try to wire anything. Misunderstanding this could get a person killed. That CANNOT be overstated and it only takes one messup.
I am going to take pictures and do a thread on just this topic over the weekend and try to make this as clear as possible because diagrams can be confusing and that is not a good thing.

http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/ph-conv/ph-conv.html
http://www.homemetalshopclub.org/pro...nv/phconv.html

relvinnian

I hope for your sake that this process works well and it brings you good returns! You have invested ALOT!

Scalliwag

I hope your right. I'm not too concerned about the monetary returns as I am the end result. I'll just spend the money on more weird *** ideas if it comes along.
As long as it is fun doing it I will be happy. The 14 hours grinding on the one housing and wrecking the tooling has really been the only disappointing part of the process.
Everything else has been pretty fun. Making pports with a cheapass lathe and a hole saw was an absolute rush.
You should have seen the look on my wife's face when she saw the big *** motor in the garage! It's moments like those that make it all worthwhile

banzaitoyota

Why not build your own CNC X-Y table for mounting the Thermal Spray head on? That way, you can program the shape of the ID of the housing and maintain the build-thickness. JOhn

Scalliwag

There is no way to make the head rotate because there are two wires with shielding (like on a large mig welder X2) plus an air hose. If you cannot rotate the head you have to rotate the part.
Making a rotating fixture with a cam mechanism to maintain the distance and a rheostat to maintain travel speed of the part is the only way to keep the head stationary. This works off the same principle as an automated seam welder. The head is stationary and the part travels past it.
The head will actually mount to a post will approximately a 2" travel forward and back on linear bearings with a spring load to pull it to the back position. The table would be indexed so that the housing is always in the same position whenever you change to another one in order to syncronize the mechanism.
As the housing rotates a cam would roll across a bearing attached to the post like a roller rocker to make for smooth travel. The cam would be a small pattern of the shape of the housing.

SnowmanSteiner

Wow you're getting more and more into this every post. Yeah my brain was pretty much fried after finishing, and I think I was drooling a little, but it was worth it. I think you are going to need to buy a workshop soon, cause it sounds like you will have so many machines in your garage that you won't be able to move around.

- Steiner

FattyCBR

Thanks for the links, I'm glad you're going to do a write up, though they made my head jurt.

So would it be a good snag to pick up that motor?

Scalliwag

This info will be good for you as well as anyone else that may run across a possible candidate.
Look on the spec plate and see what it is. It needs to be 220 3 phase. It may show 440/220 meaning it is dual voltage. Look for the SF (service factor) If it is 1.15 or 1.25 you will be able to pull more power out of it.
So if it is 7hp you could run up to a 7hp motor. Anything outside those numbers you are going to be limited to about 80%.
I am not planning on running CNC or any sensitive electronics at this point. But if you are then you have to pay special attention to using the "run" capacitors to clean up the balance on the phases or you could cook some stuff.
There are other factors so read up or PM me with the specs if you are not sure.
Like the one write up said you need to check and see if any of the wires are shorted to the chassis.
Just because it passes that test does not mean it is good, but if it does not pass it is definately bad.
Ceck to see how much play is in the shaft.
My write up will not be a replacement for reading the more technical links I posted. It will just clear up the way it looks in the real world as opposed to a schematic.
There is not a one size fits all and most people would be able to get by with a lot less power than a 25hp motor.

Metallic_rock

Got an idea for your "cam" Use another housing. Make an extension off the center sprayer. Have a roller ride on the inside of it set up so that it is exactly the right distance from the side of the housing. set up a track on the top and bottom of that housing. and use little wheels on the top and bottom kind of like a roller coaster to keep it up next to the housing. Have 3 other extensions off the center sprayer mount with long rolling pin style rollers on them set up so that they will hold the rest of the "cam" up.

Your center sprayer mount would have to be pretty heavy duty to be able to hold up all of this weight, so a steel pipe would probably work.

on the outside of this housing, weld brackets to mount a table for the new housing to be sprayed. Ensuring, of course that it is set up exactly with the "cam"

I have this whole idea mapped out well in my head, so if you have any more questions on how it may or may not work, let me know. I wish I knew how to use computer aided drafting so I could make a picture. I'll try to draw it out and scan it. Could be a couple of days, though.

my email is christopher.brumitt@fairchild.af.mil

Metallic_rock

I forgot to mention that the center roller will have to have a pulley on it with an electric motor driving it to make the whole thing spin. So, the center roller should be rubber or something.

FattyCBR

Well, I tried pming you but it didn't work, weird. Anyway, it's 25 hp, 3 phase, 230-460v, 1.15SF. The shaft turns very well with no play. The only thing I couldn't tell was if the case was grounded, but it sounded like the article said you could ground it yourself. Maybe I'll snag it for potential future use.

(the)mouse

Atkins was making aluminum side housings about 10 yrs ago, at least experimentally. Did they quit?

Scalliwag

No, they still make them. They cost around $1200 each.

streaml1ne

Made any progress?

Scalliwag

No, the company that made my tooling made it the wrong size and that is why it is taking them so long to get it to me. That was not the best news.