hi everyone, this is my first post on the site. been a long time reader, but have only joined recently. am about to rebuild my s4 engine and am wanting to know people's thourghts and experience's with both atkin's and ra's apex seals, and both of there rebiuld kits. i have spent the day searching and everthing that i have found seem's to be from quite a while ago. just wanting to know if the seals that are sold now are different/changed or have there old problems recturfided?. thanking everyone in advance. ryan.

 

Buy Mazda Seals....end of thread.

 

This is going to vary a bit from person to person...

Rebuild kit, buy stock Mazda (Atkins); Seals either used Atkins 2pc. or stock Mazda (believe they went to 2pc too)

 

RA seals are hard, atkins seals are soft, stock mazda= just right

 

^ stole that from me

 

I'm either going RA or atkins. It's one of these two so which is best from people experiences on here.

ATM I'm leaning towards Atkins seals

 

atkins are soft seals, so they have the advantage of (typically) less damage to internal parts if you break them.

RA's are hard, so they might be a tad harder to break (but keep in mind anything will break if you detonate hard enough), but they tend to do more damage when they do go out. also, the RA springs aren't heat treated, so they can flatten out. if you use RA's, use the stock mazda apex seal springs.

 

Will softer seals seal better???

Also if I was to go with 3mm atkins seals, these would be on par with the 2mm RA seals against DET (since they are thicker) and have the advantage of being softer.

 

I personally like the Mazda 2 piece seals over both. They are stronger than the 3 piece seals and are proven to work good. The downside is that they are more expensive but then again rebuilding an engine again if something bad happens is even more expensive.

 

anything....ANYTHING will break if you detonate, but a 3mm seal can give you just a bit more strength. about the only time i'd actually suggest 3mm seals is when your rotors are out of spec for 2mm's....or if you're trying to break some kind of hp record

 

It's the corner springs, not the apex springs.

 

i'm not sure what you mean, mahjik. RA apex springs are junk and i wasnt aware they even made corner seal springs.

 

I think your confused. The springs that come with the RA seals aren't heat threated. I have emails confirming this fact direct from the source. I re-used my stock springs in my S5 NA rebuild. The springs that came with the RA seals can easily be bent by hand compared to the stock springs.

 

Yes. They had a disclaimer up saying that their corner seal springs were not to be used in higher HP applications, only stock NA applications. I believe they just stop shipping them so they wouldn't be used at all and removed their disclaimer (if you look at their page, they still say their kit comes with them but you won't get any at least with a 13B-REW kit).

I'm not confused. I know what you are talking about as the early batches sold by RA weren't heat treated. Apparently that was worked out (supposedly), but the corner seal spring problem was never worked out and they just started saying to use the OEM corner seal springs.

 

the apex seal springs come with the warning. i haven't heard anything about the corner springs failing, but i'm 110% positive the apex seals springs are the ones not suggested for high hp use.

 

here:
http://rotaryaviation.com/2_mm_apex_seals.htm

 

Yes, but I don't think that heat treating is the only reason they are not as stiff as the OEM springs. I would be interested in seeing the messages about the springs as I remembered a conversation, about a year ago, mentioning the same thing and that it was a production error which was to be remedied.

 

I run 18psi with RA seals and springs...12k miles no issues.

 

Anyone got anything bad to say about the atkins seals then????????

 

ok. i've posted this question before but nobody has responded. ANybody have updates to Rotary Aviation New Nitrite Coated apex Seals? We've got a set coming into malaysia which i'm going to run on my engine. Any feedback would be excellent.

 

i wonder what those are gonna do to the rotor housings...

 

all this talk about RA saels, no ojne seams to have any experiance's with atkins seals. i'm planning on setting up a s4 for drifting and want between 400-500 bhp. seems that atkins will bend, could be a good thing, would only mean a strip down and a new seal kit if there is a problem with the apex's. has anyone had there atkins fail on them at all?. please speak up people, could be saving people who are asking the expense of having to pay for a second rebuild. thanks ryan.

 

Thats the thing. i have tried checking with ra website and nothing has come up so far. is anybody close enough and in the same time zone to give a call and clarify. This would save many people here with pending rebuilds to have an added choice of apex seals. anybody?

 

someone should make an apex seal with a depleted uranium coating on just the tip.

strong, soft, it'll bend before it breaks.
only problem is the weight... which is why it would only be on the tip.

remind me to try that out next time i find a couple million dollars laying around for r&d

 

I've ran 3 sets of Atkins apex-seals? Anyways, I've detonated and broken several of their seals. I'm currently running RA apex-seals and apex-springs with about 15k-20k miles, because they're cheaper and supposedly "don't break".

I really can't give you a personal opinion on the RA seals though, because I've yet to tear down my current motor and check the condition of the rotor-housings... I am more than a little bit wary though, after hearing about several member's experiences.

I'm honestly 50/50 on what to go with. Just close your eyes and pick!