dr.occa

iTrader: (3)

Saw this video on autoline.tv:

Episode 997 – New Subcompact for Brazil, Auto Sales on the Rise, First Zinc-Air Battery? – Autoline Daily

Here are some images of a modified and factory housing side by side captured from the video.

I contacted Mazdatrix about performing this modification to the housings and here is the email conversation:

From: Mazdatrix [mailto:mail@mazdatrix.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 4:31 PM
To: J. Velasco
Subject: Re: Rotor housing modification

Sorry, no. We have no way of doing that. Also, getting the filled-in area perfectly flat with the rest of that area of the rotor housing would be extremely hard to do.

----- Original Message -----
From: J. Velasco
To: 'mail@mazdatrix.com'
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:00 AM
Subject: Rotor housing modification

I would like to test this modification’s potential on a 12A motor of mine. Would Mazdatrix be able to change the rotor facing side of my spark plug ports to slits no taller than 1.5mm slots? If so, could you provide me with a ballpark estimate of the cost for this modification to be performed on 12(a) housings? I’ve attached t(w)o images to illustrate what it is I’m wanting. Thank you in advance.


I was disappointed to here their answer.

The way Ernie Brink described it, it makes sense that it would greatly minimize if not almost eliminate compression & mixture loss as well as reduce exhaust temps. Reduced exhaust temps would also translate to a cooler motor.

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

I'm curious of the other slit further down in the housing. I'm sure that a good welder could take care of that for you but, life expectancy might be a crap shoot. Someone very good and careful at handworking could probably get that flat enough to work.

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

You can't weld the inner chrome liner I just want to make sure you guys get that. You will compromise the wear resistance, expansion rate (various metals) and then you have the intergranular corrosion factor.

The only feasible way to fix the inner surface is to chrome plate the entire area or plasma spraying. We're looking to see if the chrome plating is worth even getting into. It's not hard at all it's a dirty, smelly, and low profit margin job.

Plasma spraying would be superior due to the array of material choice. Again, unless someone wanted to pay high dollars for something of higher strength (not a problem at all with even the factory chrome liner) or wear resistance then there's no profit margin.

I won't say what the real answer should be as that will be our next R&D undertaking...

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

Lol, Ernie is a good friend who stops here often, those are old A-spec parts you're looking at. The other slit further down the housing is another spark plug location. As far as welding stuff and what not the parts you see were just a proof of concept not the actual finished product, he actually has running engines now.

~S~

Monkman33

iTrader: (28)

There are companies doing a rechroming process. May possibly be something to look into if you were to attempt this mod.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

sheesh, not here too....

i saw that video months back and shook my head.

a) of course if you take a picture of the rotor housing without a plug in it, it will look like a huge gaping hole. a real issue? not so much if you actually put the proper surface discharge plug in there and look again.
b) mazda already tested various pocket configurations, probably also tested the plug holes and locations to no end as well
c) a fellow on the RX8 forum tested moving the lead plug in further, reducing the compression release pocket in the leading plug hole and the result was disturbing versus an obvious gain.


but hey, i would love to see a backyard mechanic come up with a revolutionary fix, unfortunately i know better that this particular fix isn't really going to fix much. is it a problem? yes, but not a huge one.

want something revolutionary? run alcohol in your rotary engine and see similar to the claimed results! all without welding globs to your rotor housings and rotors.

you guys will take anything seriously won't you. that video was to dig up viewers from the obvious lacking rotary enthusiasts after the announcement of the end of rotary engine car production. what would it take to convince me? not just some words. i want to see EGT logs, performance charts, coolant temps, before and after results..

dr.occa

iTrader: (3)

I'm interested in getting in touch with Mr. Brink primarily to see dyno numbers & EGT readings as well.


I'd love to see them as well as get pricing if for even the modified rotor housings.

I'd like to either see that this not only works in theory but also with real world results

OR

see that it's actually not viable. I'm not going to just start hurling "snake oil sales man" right off the bat.

I'd like proof either way and I'm hoping for positive and tangible evidence. Many of us here in "gullible" Texas are very interested in seeing what the results are if any.

chuyler1

iTrader: (1)

I would like to get to the bottom of this too. I find it very hard to believe that one man has a solution that Mazda R&D hasn't been able to crack for 40 years.

dr.occa

iTrader: (3)

Whether it's under a tree or behind the work bench of a large automotive firm with millions of dollars in tooling, it's usually one man that gets a wild hair of an idea that cracks a hole through the proverbial wall.

Sometimes "you can't see the forest for the trees" still does apply.

slowredrx7

May be you could encourage ERNIE to post on this forum, share some progress results

OBDAutoTool

I'm sure that a good welder could take care of that for you but, life expectancy might be a crap shoot. Someone very good and careful at handworking could probably get that flat enough to work.

cdoublejj

but, not impossible, the initial rotary was made some how add to that we have stuff like 3D printers that can print metal parts.


that too part had to have been made some how just of matter of making one like stock but, with new "slits".

13brefc86

That guy is the founder and owner of Tesla Motors the electric car. He also created Paypal and sold it to ebay then created his rocket company then Tesla Motors.

dr.occa

iTrader: (3)

^Wow, value added post!



Anyway, I'll be contacting Ernie here soon with more inquiries.

laujesse

iTrader: (19)

If you ever want to understand the true "capabilities" of Mazda R&D engineers just follow this link.

http://www.turborx7.com/images/Techn...e_diagram2.jpg

Lets just say its possible they missed something when copy pasting the work of Mr. Wankel.

dr.occa

iTrader: (3)

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. So, can you point it out to me (and possibly others) what you're trying to say with the image link?

...are you referring to the "empty pipe" in the diagram?

laujesse

iTrader: (19)

In Lewis Carroll’s classic Through the Looking Glass, the White Knight shows Alice his own invention—a lunch basket mounted upside down. “I carry it upside down so the rain can’t get in” he says with pride. “But the things can get out,” Alice replies. “Do you know the lid’s open?”

The White Knight just like Mazda made the classic engineering mistake of focusing on a secondary objective to the point where he totally overlooks the primary goal(a reliable, maintainable, marketable vehicle).

That link is one of the greatest engineering failures of all time before it even started.

cdoublejj

well now with the improvements being suggested in that video and today's technology it seems like the chances of having the best of both are worlds are more likely than ever.

rx7shane

but even with a surface discharge plug the intake gas would still get by a surface discharge plug there will still be a gap for the gas to get around the apex seal also there arent too many gas stations thet sell alcohol maybe e85 but thats not common everywhere

Ernie Brink

The four strokes of a wankel internal combustion occurs simultaneously this why its more efficient than piston engine

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

why did you dig this **** back up?

Ernie Brink

Watch rotary hemi breakthrough on you tube

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

how about, no.

JDriftM

iTrader: (9)

Haha....I swear this resurfaces every few years....amazing fail. Truly.

peejay

That's the first time I have ever heard anybody claim that Wankels were more efficient than piston engines at anything other than converting fuel to noise.

They're so much less efficient it isn't funny. Peripheral port rotaries USED TO eclipse piston engines for BSFC, in a narrow region of high loadings, but piston engines have made a lot of gains since then.