CarmonColvin

I have owned RX's for years and have turned nearly every bold on an FC with the exception of the internals of the motor and tranny. Because I have 2 n/a FC's that are in need of a rebuild I have decided it is time for me to try my hand at rebuilding a rotary.

I have already bought the Bruce Turrentine Video from Atkins and have watched it. It seems to be an easy job and according to the video the two most important tasks is cleaning the parts and measuring the tolerances.

Now that I am adding things up I am beginning to think that it is not going to save me much money to rebuild these motors myself if I want to do it right.

I have a huge selection of tools in my garage but there are quite a few things I feel I would need to rebuild the motors properly.

$83.56 Dial Indicator (measuring end play and side housing surface)
$48.35 24 In Straight Edge (checking for warpage on side housings)
$42.87 Dial Caliper 0-150mm
$87.95 0-4in Micrometer Set. (measuring journals)
$56.93 6pc Telescopic Gages (measuring inside bearings)
$49.99 1000 lb Engine Stand
$249.99 2 ton engine crane
$99.99 20 Gallon Capacity Parts Washer
$69.00 RotaryEngineStand Adapter

Considering some other miscellaneous shop supplies (washer solvent, gasket remover, engine paint, etc.) I am looking at $800.00 just to get the garage fully equiped to do the job "right".

If I am going to go through all of this trouble I am going to go all out and put in a full "hard seal" kit into both motors at approx $900.00 each.

Anticipating that I will not have to replace any major engine parts (rotor housings, side housings, etc.) I am looking at $2600.00 to rebuild both motors.

Considering that a decent rebuild with a warranty can be purchased for around $1600.00 each I am only saving $300.00 per motor.

Now I know that if I build more motors in the future it will help offset the cost of the extra tools I would have bought do do the rebuild.

In my opinion it will probably be worth more than just the hypothetical $600.00 savings. I will be able to say that I built the motor in my cars.

Has anybody else calculated the actual savings when rebuilding a motor?

rxseven

You could buy most of the measuring tools for much cheaper from harbor freight and they will do the job just fine. As an example the inside micrometer set is $20 and so is the dial indicator. You can rent an engine hoist or buy one for $150, you don't need a 2 ton, $250 engine hoist! If you plan on keeping rotaries around, you will be happy you made the small initial investment.
Rebuild it yourself, it is sooo much fun.

CarmonColvin

I know just by shopping around on the net that almost everything I listed could be purchased for less. I am willing to pay a bit more to have a bit better quality. All the measuring tools listed are Fowler name brand and for example the micrometers have the resolution of 0.0001 where as the HarborFreight micrometers have the resolution of 0.001. That sounds like a a big difference in accuracy when some of the factory bearing tolerances go out to the 0.0001's of an inch.

And you are correct about the engine lift but the 1 ton folding engine lift at Harborfreight.com is only $20.00 cheaper. I know I have seen them cheaper at the store but I was just going by the prices on the website.

Now if I could just find a cheap bearing press and balancing machine I would be all set.

Scalliwag

Another thing to consider is that when you take your time and build it yourself you know what you got.
Hopefully you have a few rotor friends nearby to help double check your work for you.
I have not seen the video but I suspect it covers all aspects of checking all components.
I can guarantee you that when a motor is being built for someone else there is a tendency to go ahead with some parts the builder would have been a little more hesitant about if they were buiding it for themself.


If you are in a position to take your time on it then that is another advantage. If someone else is building it they may not be checking every little detail in the process.
I try not to be cynical ut I never like to rely on others if I can avoid it.
There are a lot of great builders out there like Pineapple and others that have built a very respectable reputation.
If you do decide to opt for a builder be sure to go with the closest well known and respected rotary builder to you. Come back here and give a name and a price and get some input.

CarmonColvin

If I had the money there would be no question, I would buy the motors from Atkins Rotary. They built the motor for ProjectPartsTrader and I love it.

There is not a rotary shop near where I live that I trust with an FC. Twice now I have towed a car to Atlanta (180 miles) just to get Mazcare to work on them (that is how much I don't trust my local dealerships).

BTW: If I need new rotor housings are you going to be up and running with your rotor housing resurfacing?

banzaitoyota

I had my first engine rebuilt by Rob at Pineapple. I am pleased with it. However, I will now rebuild/build my own. I would much rather spend the same amount /if not more and add to my tool collection.

Y else would I have 3 engine stands?

SPOautos

I'd much rather save $600, aquire some new nice goodies, and know its right. In my opinion thats much better than just sending them all the money.

Also, when you refer to a "full "hard seal" kit " what are your talking about??? I've never heard anyone refer to anything as a full hard seal kit. What all does it include for $900?

I say if you have the time to go slow and do it right your better of doing it and knowing everything is right. No one care as much about your engine as you do.

STEPHEN

CarmonColvin

I might just be using my own terminology but I think I have read this before.

The soft seal kit is the gasket and o-ring kit that is considered the minimum to rebuild a motor. (includes: water seals, rubber oil seals, front & rear main seal). I see that Mazdatrix.com calls this an engine gasket set

The hard seal kit is the full rebuild kit that includes all of the "soft seals" as well as new apex seals and springs, side seals and springs, and the metal part of the rotor oil seals. Mazdatrix sells the hard seals in a separate kit from the gasket set called a Rotor Kit.

silver93

I am rebuilding mine right now (FD) -
of what you listed:

$83.56 Dial Indicator (measuring end play and side housing surface)
$48.35 24 In Straight Edge (checking for warpage on side housings)
$42.87 Dial Caliper 0-150mm
$87.95 0-4in Micrometer Set. (measuring journals)
$56.93 6pc Telescopic Gages (measuring inside bearings)
$49.99 1000 lb Engine Stand
$249.99 2 ton engine crane
$99.99 20 Gallon Capacity Parts Washer
$69.00 RotaryEngineStand Adapter

you don't need the engine stand adapter if you have an engine stand with the 4 adjustable ends. i bolted mine right to the engine stand , no problem (engine stand came from northern).

parts washer - $100! bought a big plastic tub from home depot for $5. you can make it work.

engine hoist - rent one to remove the engine, rerent to put it back in - should be like $50 total.

straight edge - i didn't buy one - just found something straight - you can figure this part out -

the dial calipers and such - ask around, borrow, rent,
hell, you can even try sears, buy it, use it, return it, use the moeny to get the next thing, etc...

personally i had a lot of tools anyway, and what i didn't have, i borrowed from the mechanics at work. i was lucky in that i borrowed the hoist, the stand, all the measuring equipment -that made life nice.

out of pocket for me so far:
$10 for 2 gallons of mineral spirits
$5 for washing tub
$13 for carb cleaner
$5 for oven cleaner
$10 for scotch brite pads, brass brush, stuff like that (razor blades)
$5 for JB weld

In the end, if a few months ago, I had the cash laying around, i would have just ordered a mazda reman and been done with it.
If I removed the engine myself, ordered the reman, and put it in myself, i think it would cost me an extra $600-700 , give or take. I have to get a new rear housing, and maybe a rotor. everything else checked out.
If i paid someone to do it - it would come out to like $3500-$4000 depending.

so, how much is your time worth? if you would rather just drive and screw around with rebuilding, and have about $2300 cash, then get the mazda reman.

if you wanna save about $500-700 or so, and have the time and desire, then do it youself.

it's not that bad, with the bulk of the time going to cleaning the actual parts. the video makes it VERY easy.
(although i say this and i am not done yet, so....!)

rxseven

I have seen engine hoists for $150 at discount hardware stores. If you have an atwoods near you, they sell the smallest one for $160. As for micrometers, I am looking at harbor freights calipers and they are 0.001" accurate so the mics have to have a higher resolution. BTW, the dial indicator is $9.99 and 0.001" accurate. For most specs, 1/1000th of an inch accuracy will work just fine.
Go for it dude!!!!

Gearhead

iTrader: (1)

Silver93, you even payed too much for mineral spirits.

silver93

lol - yeah, i think it was like $3.99/gall. at home depot, couldn't remember, so it was just easier to call it $10!