Plasma, cement, ceramic coatings. First Impressions Part 2
10-20-06, 03:43 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by now
anyone who says that you can detonate a ceramic seal have it brake
and not damage the housing is dreaming or very very lucky.
my 2 cents
matt
and not damage the housing is dreaming or very very lucky.
my 2 cents
matt
Below are pics of seals that broke and did ZERO damage.
The first is one of my origional prototypes that Pettit Racing put onto a 300+ hp 1 rotor.
The car had an electrical problem and was detonating all down the straightaway over and over again. They got the seals for free so I guess they didn't care and wanted to see what the seals would take. Eventually they broke 1 of the seals and again the engine kept running. In fact they kept running it until the same seal broke on the opposite end. This was evident by the amount of carbon visable at the different breaks.
The second is La Anais, a 3/4 chassis drag car where they broke 1 seal and the engine continued to run. After tear down they were amazed to see no other damage to anything.
I have had to write a comprehensive installation proceedure for the ceramic seals as it seems people don't realise how IMPORTANT it is to make sure ALL the clearances are where they should be.
Please make certain you give and have all the facts befroe making a post like this.
10-20-06, 06:57 PM
#52
Originally Posted by Glassman
Don't forget to mention the inadequate seal to groove clearance of less than 0.001".
Remember when I came to check it out and I had to try and jam the 0.001" feeler next to the seal and could only get it in about 1 or 2mm.
There were 3 problems going on in that engine.
my 3 cents, Sven
Remember when I came to check it out and I had to try and jam the 0.001" feeler next to the seal and could only get it in about 1 or 2mm.
There were 3 problems going on in that engine.
my 3 cents, Sven
it was not that tight when i put it together, i did check that.
I didnt say anything bad about your product here
so dont make me sounds stupid!!
matt
10-20-06, 07:36 PM
#53
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Hey glassman, if a seal broke the way the stock seals tend to break, I mean completly off to the point that a large chunk of seal is floating free in the combustion chamber, that would certainly damage the housings wouldn't it ?
10-20-06, 08:21 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by now
there had to be s#!^ in the groove from the seal failing.
it was not that tight when i put it together, i did check that.
I didnt say anything bad about your product here
so dont make me sounds stupid!!
matt
it was not that tight when i put it together, i did check that.
I didnt say anything bad about your product here
so dont make me sounds stupid!!
matt
10-20-06, 08:38 PM
#55
Originally Posted by Glassman
I wasn't talking about a broken seal, I was talking about the "good" rotor and the clearances I found to the undamaged seals.
and grooves were within specs.
no matter this was not the problem that caused the failure!
matt
10-20-06, 08:46 PM
#56
Originally Posted by C. Ludwig
I will be trying a set of the A housings in a few months with my 20B. A local guy had three housings and a bunch of other stuff for sale for a crackhead price. I bought them up just because. They've been sitting on a shelf for a long time. So why not? Looks like I'll be using NRS seals with them. I'll keep everyone posted.
wtf bixor?
10-20-06, 08:56 PM
#57
Originally Posted by slo
Hey glassman, if a seal broke the way the stock seals tend to break, I mean completly off to the point that a large chunk of seal is floating free in the combustion chamber, that would certainly damage the housings wouldn't it ?
damage if any seal makes it out of the groove the fragment, will if you are lucky
just go out the exhaust ((i have seen the outer bit of the 3 piece mazda seal
come out of the groove from being worn out and just go out the exhaust and
no damage was done to the rotor or housing) but this is beyond luck)
if you are unlucky the fragment of ceramic comes out of the rotor groove will mash between
the rotor and housing and turn to a super abrasive ..
I am not saying that ceramics are a bad thing, doesn't matter what
seal fails there is a good chance that a rotor and housing will be damaged.
matt
10-20-06, 09:03 PM
#58
I'd have to agree. Different seal manufacturers claim that their seal "does less damage in the event of a break" than others. I personally cannot see how any fragment of metal or ceramic no matter the exact composition, 2 or 3mm wide at least, can pass through an area that narrows to <1mm in width without touching and scratching some surface. IT is possible that a small enough piece can escape without touching, but the odds are not in your favor, and IF it touches it WILL do damage.
Now yes, if you chip or break a seal in such a way that it stays in place, then there should be no damage. This is extremely rare.
Now yes, if you chip or break a seal in such a way that it stays in place, then there should be no damage. This is extremely rare.
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