How far has an non-turbo been taken without going on the bottle and only with street porting and all other possible mods.

 

I don't have any specific examples, but I've heard of a few guys with streetported NA's, using the stock redline, and making around 225 rwhp, but that's just what I HEARD. Not sure how much higher one could go on a streetport.

 

that is great can you tell me who did it and how cuz I want to do that?

 

Sorry, but don't have any specifc details. I imagine though it would have to start with a fully rebuilt engine, straight through single exhaust using a nice header, large streetport, enlarged exhaust ports, throttle body modification, intake manifold porting, removal of A/C system, air pump and power steering pump, and engine fan. It would probably be using the Series 5 higher compression rotors, larger fuel injectors, and an upgraded ignition system.

After that stuff, it's getting into more serious mods like bridgeporting, p-porting, upping the redline, etc

 

Thanks dude.

P.S. If anybody is out there that has done this please post the mods on the car and where you had the porting don and an approx. price tag on the car after the complete build.

 

bump!

 

it would be a 4 port 13b and it just depends if you want to do the work your self or no... your going to need a 4 port 13b gasket set serise 5 rotors 2mm aftermarket apex seals msd ignition porting templates header 3 in exaughst with high flow muffler... air cooled oil cooler GOOD IDEA TO HAVE... intake and large carb... high flow airfilter... port mached intake ofcourse... and thats all I can think of right now... price??? ALL DEPENDS HOW MUCH YOU CAN GET THE PARTS FOR

 

mmm would a 13bt with s5 rotors count as a 4 port?

And for carbs how about weber dcoe48's? those big enuf?

 

Rs4Racer, I'm not sure if anyone make's dcoe manifolds for the 13bt. If I'm not mistaken, the intake ports/bolt-pattern is different than older 4-ports. You also wouldn't want to go 86+ rotor housings and use earlier 12a/13b side housings because of the oil rings. Personally, I'd just use older 13b 4-port housings s5 rotors and an ida manifold/carb setup.

 

A streetported motor (4 or 6 port) with a good intake and exhaust can easily hit 200 rwhp using a standalone ecu such as a Haltech. The reason many have a hard time hitting this number is due to the extremely restricitve air flow meter as well as not being able to properly tune for the mods done. The 4 ports should be capable of more power however due to less turbulence through the ports due to their size. Pettit used to claim that a 6 port engine that still reatained the auxillary port actuation could hit 235 fwhp at 8500 rpm with a Haltech. I believe it. I do have a weber manifold that has been modded to work on the TII engines that I'm never going to use.

 

I agree with rotarygod, just because everyone claims that you can't hit a certain hp with an N/A doesn't mean it's not possible. It's all in the tuning, ecu tuning has A LOT to do with the power of an engine and the characteristics involved. I don't care what anyone tells me, I know its possible to get at least 230 from an N/A w/out having to spend a billion dollars to do it, it's all on how much time and effort you put into it.

 

since when the hell did they put rotarys in fwd cars??? running fi is a bad idea unless your swaping over to like a tpi or a tbi setup where the thing can FLOW... free flowing parts are what give the rotary power... I dont care WHAT you do to a stock fi setup is STILL going to be restrictive as hell...

 

FWHP is fly wheel horse power.

 

About hp numbers fron a N/A i have achieved 244hp sae net from a 13B streetported motor with a single 51mm IDA carb, 2MSD direct fire ignition, Hurley 3mm seals, 54mm primary headers and some tuning. This is flywheelhp!

 

mmm the weber manifold will fit on a 13bt according to atkins rotary.

 

Lasse wankel

who did that work for you and can you give me a list of things they did.Price?

 

My buddie has a 12a streetport with, lightened rotors (stock compression), hardened stationary gears, and 2mm apex seals. I think there were a few more mods done to the motor but I dont remember. But either way, with a Weber IDA 48n and a 9 PSI fuel pump, the motor puts out 220hp at the flywheel. I figure if a 12a can do this, thy the hell is it so difficult to get close to 300hp out of a 13b??

 

The reason is because, in NA form 13b engines only ever make about a max of 20 hp more than 12a engines. Most of the time with identical mods they are like 10-15 hp of each other. Remember every thing is the same, but one is about and inch longer and thats it. The 13b does however make a somewhat considerable amuont more tourque.

CJG

 

My post earlier was considering rear wheel horsepower. Flywheel horsepower is as relevent as how big your stickers are on the windshield (well, you get the point). It's what gets put down. 300 rwhp = 345-350 flywheel hp... which is already 125+ more than that certain 12A acheived.
I don't know if anyone has or ever will put down 300 rwhp with a streetported 13B NA without the use of custom made high compression rotors and lots of internal modifcations to allow high redline.

 

In regards to the question of since when did they put rotaries in fwd cars the answer is since 1974! Mazda manufactured only one front wheel drive car. It was called the R-130 and was only in the Japanese home market for a year or so. It had a carb'd 13B 4 port in some models and the standard 4 cyl. piston engines in others.

 

I do all the engine work myself and my friend Mikael is always doing all of the porting. I live in Sweden, and the 13B was for a customer in Norway who is rallycrossing an old Beetle. Here are some of the parts i have used:

Stock-76 9:2cr rotors which had some side clearences.
Dynamically balanced rotors and excentric shaft.
65 ATDC large streetport flows 167cfm@28 of water.
Exhaust port opening lovered 5mm and raised about 7mm for a total height of 35mm (78-85 housings).
Stock hardened gears w long teeth.and blue printed bearings in rotors and gears. 17.5mm oil pump.
Australian made IDA manifold (flows more air than Racing Beats manifold) 51mm Weber 45mm chokes F-7 emulsion tubes 235 main jets 160 air jets.
MSD-direct fire on Leading w 2 6A boxes set at L 20 T 10. Hurley 3mm seals. 3" exhaust system w 1 full flow silencer and to big 54mm primaries. Engine peak was at 7800rpm 243.8 hp and 175ft/lbs (240Nm) of torque.
The car was very competitive in his class against 2.5L 6-cylindre Porsche engines and won some races. Next year he will be back with a Perpheral 13B which we are working on that should have 270-280hp with goog torque.

 

This is the setup of my dream n/a 1st gen:

12a front and rear sides w/large streetport
13b 6port center side w/large streetport
13b 4port rotor housings w/exhaust porting
s5 rotors with 2mm ceramic seals and new side seals
internals balanced and clearanced
hardened stationaries
modified eccentric shaft
50mm IP ida throttle body
dfi
custom full length primaries
custom exhaust
everything controlled by a haltec e6k

I think that the above car would be capable of putting down as much power to the wheels as some carbed bp's while maintaining a lot more streetability--given it's a considerably more expensive way to go.

 

A local racecar "el duro" has a stock interal GSL-Se motor, intake, full exhaust, and standalone engine management and he makes 212 rwhp on the dyno. Thats quite good for minimal mods, and thats around 240 to 250 flywheel horsepower! Standalone engine management and GOOD TUNING are key to reliable horsepower.

 

Some of these hp numbers being pulled out are just ludicrous. 212rwhp from a stock internalled 6-port 13B is impossible regardless of the state of tune. Put that thing on a Dyno Dynamics system or any accurate dyno for that matter and it would barely make half as much. Or better yet an engine dyno.

 

i would have to agree with revhed. that does sound a bit high for a stock internal se..

what intake is he running?