Mechanical OMP on a FD???
12-09-04, 10:41 AM
#26
Well... not to turn this into a "premix" thread, since those have already been hashed over, but I think pretty much everyone who has done much research on premix (tearing engines apart, etc) agrees on several things:
1. The MOP system, injecting crankcase oil, is at best a compromise for "street cars."
2. Injecting crankcase oil leads to really nasty carbon buildup. Carbon buildup kills rotaries.
3. Premix lubricates as well or better than the stock system.
4. Engines run on premix have very little carbon buildup.
Honestly, premixing is *not* hard, and has no chance of mechanical failure damaging the engine (if you don't remember to put it in, that's a different problem, but it usually won't kill the engine). It's significantly better for the engine, and people who tear down engines run on pure premix have seen very significant differences. Premix through the MOP will work as well, but whipping it in with the fuel will get better distribution (given that's how it's designed to be used).
I'm in the process of finding parts to make a "fuel tank oil injector" for premix. It would remove the bulk of the annoyances with premix (mostly, the mess and doing it in the cold).
-=Russ=-
1. The MOP system, injecting crankcase oil, is at best a compromise for "street cars."
2. Injecting crankcase oil leads to really nasty carbon buildup. Carbon buildup kills rotaries.
3. Premix lubricates as well or better than the stock system.
4. Engines run on premix have very little carbon buildup.
Honestly, premixing is *not* hard, and has no chance of mechanical failure damaging the engine (if you don't remember to put it in, that's a different problem, but it usually won't kill the engine). It's significantly better for the engine, and people who tear down engines run on pure premix have seen very significant differences. Premix through the MOP will work as well, but whipping it in with the fuel will get better distribution (given that's how it's designed to be used).
I'm in the process of finding parts to make a "fuel tank oil injector" for premix. It would remove the bulk of the annoyances with premix (mostly, the mess and doing it in the cold).
-=Russ=-
12-10-04, 03:54 PM
#27
wow...i think the MOP is the topic of the season this year. seems like the forum goes through swings of various topics... lol..
i think the guy that makes the adapters that rotaryaviation sells makes one for running a mechanical pump on the later cars.
i don't like the sound of the 'fuel tank injection system' sounds waay to complcated to be practical. when youre messing with something this crucial to your car, always follow the KISS principle. (Keep It Simple, Stupid for you non-engineers)
in my mind, there are 3 feasible possibilities:
1) premix
2) MOP
3) injection system like some dirt bikes use that mixes oil with fuel in the carb. (obviously we don't have a carb, but it could be done.
I personally think that the modified MOP is the way to go. Its simple, easy, easily monitored, and relatively foolproof.
thats why i wrote this writeup:
https://www.rx7club.com/rotary-car-performance-77/diy-2-stroke-mop-write-up-pics-372329/
note that this idea could be adapted to fit a mechanical MOP to the later cars, as mentioned somewhere in that thread.
pat
i think the guy that makes the adapters that rotaryaviation sells makes one for running a mechanical pump on the later cars.
i don't like the sound of the 'fuel tank injection system' sounds waay to complcated to be practical. when youre messing with something this crucial to your car, always follow the KISS principle. (Keep It Simple, Stupid for you non-engineers)
in my mind, there are 3 feasible possibilities:
1) premix
2) MOP
3) injection system like some dirt bikes use that mixes oil with fuel in the carb. (obviously we don't have a carb, but it could be done.
I personally think that the modified MOP is the way to go. Its simple, easy, easily monitored, and relatively foolproof.
thats why i wrote this writeup:
https://www.rx7club.com/rotary-car-performance-77/diy-2-stroke-mop-write-up-pics-372329/
note that this idea could be adapted to fit a mechanical MOP to the later cars, as mentioned somewhere in that thread.
pat
12-11-04, 05:08 AM
#28
Originally Posted by patman
i don't like the sound of the 'fuel tank injection system' sounds waay to complcated to be practical. when youre messing with something this crucial to your car, always follow the KISS principle. (Keep It Simple, Stupid for you non-engineers)
pat
Notice you said it "sounds" complicated. Just because things may "sound" complicated doesn't mean that people shouldn't try differant things regardless if it complicated things or not. If Mazda had that attitude we would not be driving rotary powered vehicles today. By the way, whats the deal with your quote " for you non engineers"?
12-11-04, 09:31 AM
#29
just figured someone who wasnt an engineer might not know what KISS stood for.
i'm not saying that people shouldnt try new things, just that for a system that has to be super reliable like this, the simpler the better.
answer me a couple questions, and i'll feel better about it:
1) it sounds to me like you will be mxing it in the fuel tank. if so, how does your system know how much oil to add? are you gonna meter the fuel every time you fill up?
2) if that isnt what you mean, then what is it?
3) where will the oil tank and such be located? it has to be somewhere easily visible, so that you know when its low or will notice if it seems to be not using enough.
those are my biggest ones. especially the first one.
pat
i'm not saying that people shouldnt try new things, just that for a system that has to be super reliable like this, the simpler the better.
answer me a couple questions, and i'll feel better about it:
1) it sounds to me like you will be mxing it in the fuel tank. if so, how does your system know how much oil to add? are you gonna meter the fuel every time you fill up?
2) if that isnt what you mean, then what is it?
3) where will the oil tank and such be located? it has to be somewhere easily visible, so that you know when its low or will notice if it seems to be not using enough.
those are my biggest ones. especially the first one.
pat
12-11-04, 01:01 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by patman
just figured someone who wasnt an engineer might not know what KISS stood for.
pat
pat
Me.
12-12-04, 06:52 PM
#32
Originally Posted by patman
answer me a couple questions, and i'll feel better about it:
Why do I get the impression that we need your approval? Maybe you should have said.." answer me a couple questions, and then maybe i'll understand better."
1) it sounds to me like you will be mxing it in the fuel tank. if so, how does your system know how much oil to add? are you gonna meter the fuel every time you fill up?
I hope this gives you a better idea.
12-13-04, 03:51 AM
#34
Originally Posted by patman
ok.. i see that.. how is that different from premixing? oh well...i'll leave this thread alone.
Syonyk said it best here:
It would remove the bulk of the annoyances with premix (mostly, the mess and doing it in the cold).
Last edited by t-von; 12-13-04 at 03:58 AM.
12-13-04, 04:47 AM
#35
... have I really done that bad of a job describing my idea?
It *IS* premixing. 2-cycle oil is mixed with the gas. However, instead of using bottles & funnels & such, it's a nicely contained system.
t-von - one thing I'd be somewhat concerned about with your approach is that 2-cycle oil clings very well to the walls of containers (and sight tubes). I'm not sure how fast the "new" level would show, or if general splash from driving around would make it require a few minutes to settle enough to read. I'd try it out with a test tube first, and see how rapidly the new level will show.
-=Russ=-
It *IS* premixing. 2-cycle oil is mixed with the gas. However, instead of using bottles & funnels & such, it's a nicely contained system.
t-von - one thing I'd be somewhat concerned about with your approach is that 2-cycle oil clings very well to the walls of containers (and sight tubes). I'm not sure how fast the "new" level would show, or if general splash from driving around would make it require a few minutes to settle enough to read. I'd try it out with a test tube first, and see how rapidly the new level will show.
-=Russ=-
12-13-04, 09:48 AM
#37
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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Most of the time I just use the white paper funnels from the gas station. I grab a handfull of them and keep them in the hatch. Once I use it I can just throw it in the trash. I used to keep a spout that screws to to the end of a bottle in my car. It would screw right up to the oil bottle I was useing. That worked pretty well but I still prefer the disposable funnels that are free.
12-13-04, 05:12 PM
#40
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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Originally Posted by t-von
Where I'm from there are no such things as disposable funnels at gas stations. LOL.
They usually keep them right around the oil that they sell....or sometimes by the cash register.
I'd say about 95% of the gas stations I've been too have them....not just hear, all over the place. That way when you buy oil you have something to pour it in with. They usually just have a big stack of them in there.
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