FIGHT TALK FD vs FC
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Joined: Dec 2001
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From: uk
Originally posted by Grizzly
Man i can't belive how far this has gone, at the end of the day the Gen 3 is suposed to be the all singing all dancing Rx7 but you have to face it there is people that would rather have a Fc not for looks or pulling power just good old fastion Tuneability. You talk about gen3's being so much better, get 10,000 then buy both cars and use the remaining money up moding them which ones better?
Man i can't belive how far this has gone, at the end of the day the Gen 3 is suposed to be the all singing all dancing Rx7 but you have to face it there is people that would rather have a Fc not for looks or pulling power just good old fastion Tuneability. You talk about gen3's being so much better, get 10,000 then buy both cars and use the remaining money up moding them which ones better?
PRO'S:
Looks, Handling, Performance! FANTASTIC SEATING SUPERCAR SEATING POSITION!
CON'S:
kNOW WHAT TO UPRATE! BEFORE DRIVING IT! LOL
Regards...
Jus
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,271
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From: UK
Ok you buy a Mint T2 for a little over the odds and still have a heaverly moded car for the same money?
O yeh you forgot about the Reliability Stock for stock? Best pakage you will find the Supras & skylines are always going to be more reliable, Which do you think is going to brake first 400bhp Rx, 550bhp skyline or 500bhp Supra?
I'm not geting into this argument again. The Rx7 Fd is a very quick car, but Mazda spent £000,000's on building the Fd and you would think it would blow the doors off a Fc But it is just a slightly tuned Fc engine in it, they weigh about the same, the suspention may be better on the Fd as std but mechanicly there aint that bigger diffrence you are paying for the looks.
All comes down to personal prefrance. There are lots of people that hate Rx's in the motor world as they can be easly broken and very unpridictable. you say the Rx is the best package available! after how many engines does it become the most expencive?
O yeh you forgot about the Reliability Stock for stock? Best pakage you will find the Supras & skylines are always going to be more reliable, Which do you think is going to brake first 400bhp Rx, 550bhp skyline or 500bhp Supra?
I'm not geting into this argument again. The Rx7 Fd is a very quick car, but Mazda spent £000,000's on building the Fd and you would think it would blow the doors off a Fc But it is just a slightly tuned Fc engine in it, they weigh about the same, the suspention may be better on the Fd as std but mechanicly there aint that bigger diffrence you are paying for the looks.
All comes down to personal prefrance. There are lots of people that hate Rx's in the motor world as they can be easly broken and very unpridictable. you say the Rx is the best package available! after how many engines does it become the most expencive?
Thread Starter
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 103
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From: uk
Originally posted by Grizzly
Ok you buy a Mint T2 for a little over the odds and still have a heaverly moded car for the same money?
O yeh you forgot about the Reliability Stock for stock? Best pakage you will find the Supras & skylines are always going to be more reliable, Which do you think is going to brake first 400bhp Rx, 550bhp skyline or 500bhp Supra?
I'm not geting into this argument again. The Rx7 Fd is a very quick car, but Mazda spent 000,000's on building the Fd and you would think it would blow the doors off a Fc But it is just a slightly tuned Fc engine in it, they weigh about the same, the suspention may be better on the Fd as std but mechanicly there aint that bigger diffrence you are paying for the looks.
All comes down to personal prefrance. There are lots of people that hate Rx's in the motor world as they can be easly broken and very unpridictable. you say the Rx is the best package available! after how many engines does it become the most expencive?
Ok you buy a Mint T2 for a little over the odds and still have a heaverly moded car for the same money?
O yeh you forgot about the Reliability Stock for stock? Best pakage you will find the Supras & skylines are always going to be more reliable, Which do you think is going to brake first 400bhp Rx, 550bhp skyline or 500bhp Supra?
I'm not geting into this argument again. The Rx7 Fd is a very quick car, but Mazda spent 000,000's on building the Fd and you would think it would blow the doors off a Fc But it is just a slightly tuned Fc engine in it, they weigh about the same, the suspention may be better on the Fd as std but mechanicly there aint that bigger diffrence you are paying for the looks.
All comes down to personal prefrance. There are lots of people that hate Rx's in the motor world as they can be easly broken and very unpridictable. you say the Rx is the best package available! after how many engines does it become the most expencive?
Thats why in my opinion the FD is or RX7'S in general are the best for the money, the most under rated car also!
That suits me fine!!!!
Regards...
Jus
FC (Modded 87 US):
Feels like more space in the cabin. Definitely more space in the hatchback.
The quality of interior is not as good as the FD.
However, if you dig the 80's interior, then you'll like the FC.
You can adjust the steering wheel.
Cheaper on certain parts (stock OEM and model specific), but not all. It's not like you're going to get charged an extra $400 for a Haltech E6K based on FD or FC differences. If you look at kits, that may explain price disparities between models.
FD (Modded 94 US):
Much better feel for the road since it seems you're sitting lower.
Interior is much better than the FC, but it does seem a little "Dodge" like where there are lots of plastic pieces.
The cabin is more snug and I like how the shifter lines up with my arm in my FD.
FD stock will have better LSD, suspension, and engine components. The rotor housings and rotors are very similar to the 89 T2 (GTX). The intake tract is definitely a better design. I would love to get a COSMO intake for the FC.
The non-adjustable steering wheel is slightly annoying since I have long legs.
The engine bay is tighter, but some of the things done on the FD make it easier for maintenance (oil cooler lines).
I would say working on my FC is a lot more comfortable.
If you're on the budget, FC has it hands down.
If you can afford the updated RX-7 (FD), you can get the FD or wait for the RX-8.
I didn't have the luxury of comparing stock cars nor the accessories (AC, power steering, etc).
Exterior is solely dependent on tastes.
I personally think a lot of those body kits make the FC/FD ugly. Mazda did a terrific job on their body design.
My 2 babies.... 87 will leave the nest soon. =o(
87: 89 ported T2 block; hardened gears; 3mm apex seals, FD side seals and corner seal springs, ol' school solid corner seals, rx4 OPR, 60-1 T04B, Greedy FMIC, Xcess Type H BOV, E6K, 1600cc secondaries, SX FPR, K2RD coil-over w/ camber adj plates, KYB AGX, ST sway bars, RB rearcamber adjuster; Supra TT FP; HKS wg; 3" straight to N1 muffler (single)
94: stock j-spec block; 62-1 T04B; G-force ECU (crap); SX FPR; upgraded dual FP; 1000cc secondaries; HKS wg; Greedy FMIC; Kaaz LSD; Koni height adj shocks; eibach springs
The 87 is the faster of the 7's, obviously.
Once I junk the G-force and build a new motor, the FD will be on par.
Feels like more space in the cabin. Definitely more space in the hatchback.
The quality of interior is not as good as the FD.
However, if you dig the 80's interior, then you'll like the FC.
You can adjust the steering wheel.
Cheaper on certain parts (stock OEM and model specific), but not all. It's not like you're going to get charged an extra $400 for a Haltech E6K based on FD or FC differences. If you look at kits, that may explain price disparities between models.
FD (Modded 94 US):
Much better feel for the road since it seems you're sitting lower.
Interior is much better than the FC, but it does seem a little "Dodge" like where there are lots of plastic pieces.
The cabin is more snug and I like how the shifter lines up with my arm in my FD.
FD stock will have better LSD, suspension, and engine components. The rotor housings and rotors are very similar to the 89 T2 (GTX). The intake tract is definitely a better design. I would love to get a COSMO intake for the FC.
The non-adjustable steering wheel is slightly annoying since I have long legs.
The engine bay is tighter, but some of the things done on the FD make it easier for maintenance (oil cooler lines).
I would say working on my FC is a lot more comfortable.
If you're on the budget, FC has it hands down.
If you can afford the updated RX-7 (FD), you can get the FD or wait for the RX-8.
I didn't have the luxury of comparing stock cars nor the accessories (AC, power steering, etc).
Exterior is solely dependent on tastes.
I personally think a lot of those body kits make the FC/FD ugly. Mazda did a terrific job on their body design.
My 2 babies.... 87 will leave the nest soon. =o(
87: 89 ported T2 block; hardened gears; 3mm apex seals, FD side seals and corner seal springs, ol' school solid corner seals, rx4 OPR, 60-1 T04B, Greedy FMIC, Xcess Type H BOV, E6K, 1600cc secondaries, SX FPR, K2RD coil-over w/ camber adj plates, KYB AGX, ST sway bars, RB rearcamber adjuster; Supra TT FP; HKS wg; 3" straight to N1 muffler (single)
94: stock j-spec block; 62-1 T04B; G-force ECU (crap); SX FPR; upgraded dual FP; 1000cc secondaries; HKS wg; Greedy FMIC; Kaaz LSD; Koni height adj shocks; eibach springs
The 87 is the faster of the 7's, obviously.
Once I junk the G-force and build a new motor, the FD will be on par.
Lives on the Forum
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 26,664
Likes: 22
From: n
Gee, who start this thread??? 
Okay, we'll keep it to FC Kouki versus FD (US models)...
Rotor weight and CR are identical.  maxcooper is right about the machined finish on the FD engine - probably due to better production tolerances.
Intake manifolds are obviously different.  FD primary throttle bore is slightly larger; secondary bores are the same size.
Intake ports on the side housings are larger for the FD.
Stat gears are hardened for the FD - twinturborx7pete mentioned this (but he got the rotor weights wrong).
Stat gear bearings have more "windows" for the FD - better lubrication.
Rotor bearings have a deeper groove for the FD - better lubrication.
FD runs at higher oil pressure - about 100psi.  This implies the oil passages are different/larger.
Obviously the turbo system is vastly different.
Cooling is better due to a reverse rotation water pump on the FD but (arguable) inferior radiator/intercooler system layout.
Intercooler is obvious different.
Ignition trigger system is different, as FC uses CAS (ala distributor style) versus a twin magnet pick-up's with trigger wheels system on the FD.  Coil are SMALLER (and arguably inferior) versus FC coils.  Personally, I think the design of the FD coils on the motor was stupid due to increased heat and vibration on the top of the engine; both heat and vibration are detrimental to coil longevity.
8kRPM redline for FD versus 7kRPM redline for FC.
Suspension wise, this is one of the biggest change (excluding the obvious engine differences) from the two generations.  The FD runs double-wishbone front and rear, versus the FC front MacPherson and rear trailing arm and KM hub.  If you don't know it by now, the double-wishbone is superior.
FD runs a pull-type clutch, versus the normal push-type clutch on the FC.  Amazingly, the trans gear ratios are IDENTICAL - same with the rear 4.10:1 diff ratio.  Supposedly, the FD trans has better double-cone synchros in it.
FD runs a PPF, which is more similar to the Miata than the FC.  The Power Plant Frame is a metal bridge that connects the transmission bell housing to the rear diff.
FD runs a Torsen LSD, while the FC runs a viscous LSD.  The Torsen is more desireable, but cannot take massive amounts of torque before it fails (about 350-400lb/ft).
Brake rotors are LARGER on the FD, but both run the SAME types of brake calipers.  The both use the same type/dimension brake pads.  ABS is standard on FDs, and superior due to 4-channel versus 3-channel on the FC (I think).
Interior wise, the FD was DESIGNED around a 5'6" driver - there is NO way I fit in one comfortably.  I'm 6'1" and 250# - I have no problem with my FC.  The FD is easily a more cramped interior suited for the smaller-framed driver.
Dimesion wise, the FD has 3" more width in back and 1" shorter.  Tires are standard 225/50/16 size on 16"x8" rims stock - FC runs 205/55/16 on 16"x7" rims stock.
Stupid things I don't like about the FD:  stock plastic ASTs that cracks, bad radiator design, bad intercooler design, plastic headlight covers that crack and fly off during driving, (arguably) narrower shift gate that causes 2nd to 5th shifts that can kill synchros, pain-in-the-*** pull-type clutch, stock PPF's that crack and fail, some stock rims crack at the spokes, door handles that fail, tricky sequential twin-turbo system, baziilions of vacuum hoses that fail and lower boost, too cramped interior...
But the BEST one of all is...the consensus average mileage of the stock engine pegged at 60,000 miles!  The FC will run to 100k miles easily, and put another 50k miles on top of that in stock form...good luck with the original 13B-REW.
Now, remember the 13B-REW is producing 255hp versus the FC 200hp, so that's easily a 25hp increase...
-Ted
Okay, we'll keep it to FC Kouki versus FD (US models)...
Rotor weight and CR are identical.  maxcooper is right about the machined finish on the FD engine - probably due to better production tolerances.
Intake manifolds are obviously different.  FD primary throttle bore is slightly larger; secondary bores are the same size.
Intake ports on the side housings are larger for the FD.
Stat gears are hardened for the FD - twinturborx7pete mentioned this (but he got the rotor weights wrong).
Stat gear bearings have more "windows" for the FD - better lubrication.
Rotor bearings have a deeper groove for the FD - better lubrication.
FD runs at higher oil pressure - about 100psi.  This implies the oil passages are different/larger.
Obviously the turbo system is vastly different.
Cooling is better due to a reverse rotation water pump on the FD but (arguable) inferior radiator/intercooler system layout.
Intercooler is obvious different.
Ignition trigger system is different, as FC uses CAS (ala distributor style) versus a twin magnet pick-up's with trigger wheels system on the FD.  Coil are SMALLER (and arguably inferior) versus FC coils.  Personally, I think the design of the FD coils on the motor was stupid due to increased heat and vibration on the top of the engine; both heat and vibration are detrimental to coil longevity.
8kRPM redline for FD versus 7kRPM redline for FC.
Suspension wise, this is one of the biggest change (excluding the obvious engine differences) from the two generations.  The FD runs double-wishbone front and rear, versus the FC front MacPherson and rear trailing arm and KM hub.  If you don't know it by now, the double-wishbone is superior.
FD runs a pull-type clutch, versus the normal push-type clutch on the FC.  Amazingly, the trans gear ratios are IDENTICAL - same with the rear 4.10:1 diff ratio.  Supposedly, the FD trans has better double-cone synchros in it.
FD runs a PPF, which is more similar to the Miata than the FC.  The Power Plant Frame is a metal bridge that connects the transmission bell housing to the rear diff.
FD runs a Torsen LSD, while the FC runs a viscous LSD.  The Torsen is more desireable, but cannot take massive amounts of torque before it fails (about 350-400lb/ft).
Brake rotors are LARGER on the FD, but both run the SAME types of brake calipers.  The both use the same type/dimension brake pads.  ABS is standard on FDs, and superior due to 4-channel versus 3-channel on the FC (I think).
Interior wise, the FD was DESIGNED around a 5'6" driver - there is NO way I fit in one comfortably.  I'm 6'1" and 250# - I have no problem with my FC.  The FD is easily a more cramped interior suited for the smaller-framed driver.
Dimesion wise, the FD has 3" more width in back and 1" shorter.  Tires are standard 225/50/16 size on 16"x8" rims stock - FC runs 205/55/16 on 16"x7" rims stock.
Stupid things I don't like about the FD:  stock plastic ASTs that cracks, bad radiator design, bad intercooler design, plastic headlight covers that crack and fly off during driving, (arguably) narrower shift gate that causes 2nd to 5th shifts that can kill synchros, pain-in-the-*** pull-type clutch, stock PPF's that crack and fail, some stock rims crack at the spokes, door handles that fail, tricky sequential twin-turbo system, baziilions of vacuum hoses that fail and lower boost, too cramped interior...
But the BEST one of all is...the consensus average mileage of the stock engine pegged at 60,000 miles!  The FC will run to 100k miles easily, and put another 50k miles on top of that in stock form...good luck with the original 13B-REW.
Now, remember the 13B-REW is producing 255hp versus the FC 200hp, so that's easily a 25hp increase...
-Ted
Looking for a S5 TII??
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
From: Grand Junction, CO
I agree with max. I love my FC more than anything, but it in its highly modded state is a money pit. Less potential power, less potential grip, but I will ruin a stock FD and who really needs more than 400hp in a daily driver? *me* j/k... Someday I want a FD more than anything, but to have it how I want it I'll have to be making a lot more money first and DONT finance it...
~Jeremy
~Jeremy
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