Coil on plug setup
10-07-02, 11:36 AM
#1
Gaijin Racing
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Coil on plug setup
Does anyone know of any OEM applications that use a coil on plug setup? I'd like to find one that had a coil with a built in ignitor to clean things up. I know the MKIV supra has coil on plugs, so does the new WRX, and I think, I may be wrong, that the the C5 vette has the same setup...
If those OEm applications do not include an ignitor, does anyone know of a GOOD oem coil with ignotor? If not, how about a GOOD OEM coil and I can use a 300zx twin turbo ignitor... but i would incrase the wiring hassle.
If those OEm applications do not include an ignitor, does anyone know of a GOOD oem coil with ignotor? If not, how about a GOOD OEM coil and I can use a 300zx twin turbo ignitor... but i would incrase the wiring hassle.
10-07-02, 12:31 PM
#3
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Originally posted by mmaragos
2000 Nissan Maxima has coil on plug design. About $50 each. I just had to replace one.
2000 Nissan Maxima has coil on plug design. About $50 each. I just had to replace one.
10-07-02, 04:21 PM
#4
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Th GM LS1's are not a true coil on plug but they do have a built in igniter.I just finished a distributerless FAST install on a LT1 using LS1 coils. I've heard of a few supra guys going to 6 ls1 coils with a aem computer. The GM part # is 12558948 the go for about 30-35 ea. online. My buddy had a PT-88 on a 388ci LT1 running 18psi. The stock LS1 coils work great.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
10-07-02, 04:36 PM
#6
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Here is the thread on the AEM forum about LS1 coils on Supras
http://www.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=918
http://www.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=918
10-07-02, 11:56 PM
#7
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Ted, I'd like to see some proof of a coil on plug setup being worse than a designated coil and ignitor. "They all suck" That's a pretty broad statement....
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10-08-02, 12:00 AM
#8
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Originally posted by RETed
Coil-on-plug ignitions can never be as powerful as dedicated coils and spark plug wires.  Almost all the new Nissans run them - they all suck.
-Ted
Coil-on-plug ignitions can never be as powerful as dedicated coils and spark plug wires.  Almost all the new Nissans run them - they all suck.
-Ted
And what does coils and spark plug wires have to do with coil on plugs? coil on plug should have better resistance between them, and if the coil is good it is good weather it is mounted on the frame wall or on the spark plug.
-Zach
10-08-02, 07:51 AM
#10
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Originally posted by IronMdnX
Th GM LS1's are not a true coil on plug but they do have a built in igniter.I just finished a distributerless FAST install on a LT1 using LS1 coils. I've heard of a few supra guys going to 6 ls1 coils with a aem computer. The GM part # is 12558948 the go for about 30-35 ea. online. My buddy had a PT-88 on a 388ci LT1 running 18psi. The stock LS1 coils work great.
Hope this helps.
Th GM LS1's are not a true coil on plug but they do have a built in igniter.I just finished a distributerless FAST install on a LT1 using LS1 coils. I've heard of a few supra guys going to 6 ls1 coils with a aem computer. The GM part # is 12558948 the go for about 30-35 ea. online. My buddy had a PT-88 on a 388ci LT1 running 18psi. The stock LS1 coils work great.
Hope this helps.
10-08-02, 10:58 AM
#11
Coil on plug setups should only seem to work better than dedicated coil and wire setups. Why wouldn't they? There is zero resistance from a wire. True that the big advantage is that you aren't running through a distributer cap but even still the less resistance the better. Most plug wires have some kind of resistor in line to cut down on radio interference. Who cares if they don't work good on Nissan's. What do? Remember that slow heavy twin turbo cement block called the 300zx?!
10-08-02, 02:31 PM
#12
Lives on the Forum
1) As a general rule of thumb, the large the coil the more powerful the potential.  C-O-P set-ups are size limited due to their design.  I'd like to see the voltage/amp/joule ratings of these things versus some of the aftermarket coils which run in the 30kV+ range?
2) Resistance in the spark plug wire is moot.  We just went over this (in the 2G section?), where the air gap of the spark plug is the most resistive point in the DCV "circuit".  Don't tell me you're going to argue less resistance is better now?  Thus, the "advantage" of a COP system of "zero resistance" is moot.
3) The primary advantage of the COP system is the compactness of the module and almost zero possiblity of voltage leaks, versus the ole coil + spark plug set-up.
I've heard the Nissan owners all bitch about their COP ignitions.  You can't throw on a CDI box due to the stupid design.  You can't even upgrade just the coils due to the stupid design.  They are basically limited to a voltage regulator which bumps up the coil + power.
We've toyed with the idea of running these on the 20B FC when I was at K2RD.  What it came down to is the down sides outweighed the advantages.  An MSD Blaster SS coil is like $40 from Summit Racing.  You got the option to run CDI boxes to your hearts content.  Spark plugs wires are cheap.
-Ted
2) Resistance in the spark plug wire is moot.  We just went over this (in the 2G section?), where the air gap of the spark plug is the most resistive point in the DCV "circuit".  Don't tell me you're going to argue less resistance is better now?  Thus, the "advantage" of a COP system of "zero resistance" is moot.
3) The primary advantage of the COP system is the compactness of the module and almost zero possiblity of voltage leaks, versus the ole coil + spark plug set-up.
I've heard the Nissan owners all bitch about their COP ignitions.  You can't throw on a CDI box due to the stupid design.  You can't even upgrade just the coils due to the stupid design.  They are basically limited to a voltage regulator which bumps up the coil + power.
We've toyed with the idea of running these on the 20B FC when I was at K2RD.  What it came down to is the down sides outweighed the advantages.  An MSD Blaster SS coil is like $40 from Summit Racing.  You got the option to run CDI boxes to your hearts content.  Spark plugs wires are cheap.
-Ted
10-08-02, 02:57 PM
#13
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Its not a spark plug wire expense problem.... CDI boxes aint cheap, especially for a 20B. I will probably go with 6 MSD Blaster coils and use the 300zx ignitor triggered by the E6k with a retard device on the trailings... but who knows. I'd love the compactness of a COP setup, that's why I was asking for a POWERFUL OEM C-O-P setup.
10-08-02, 04:42 PM
#14
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Reply #1 from The Hitman
These following 2 emails are from the hitman:
I am yet to come across coil-on-plug's that have enough spark to support any decent HP. Some cars seem to get a freak set and will handle OK amounts of power, but when it comes to the rotaries they need even more spark to keep them running clean. I just got my own 3-rotor back together and in the car, and will be experimenting with ignition over the next few weeks. First up will be 6x FC Trail coil fired by 2x 3-channel M&W dumb ignitors. To fire up the car I will be using my old faithful E6K and just running Lead only, then once the motor is running fine I will be switching over to the E11.
In the past, back when I was running an E6S on this motor, I had plans to run an IG5 alongside it just to fire the Trail ignition. I never did get around to doing it so I cannot comment on that method. The other way was to use an old GM V6 ignitor pack which has a 3-channel sequenced output. Using two of these in Distributor mode will get you Lead and Trail running, but the only problem is that they need to receive the same signal pattern as the GM crank trigger. I know a coupe of people have done it this way.
I would be hesitant to try and run a waste-spark setup on these motors
In the past, back when I was running an E6S on this motor, I had plans to run an IG5 alongside it just to fire the Trail ignition. I never did get around to doing it so I cannot comment on that method. The other way was to use an old GM V6 ignitor pack which has a 3-channel sequenced output. Using two of these in Distributor mode will get you Lead and Trail running, but the only problem is that they need to receive the same signal pattern as the GM crank trigger. I know a coupe of people have done it this way.
I would be hesitant to try and run a waste-spark setup on these motors
10-08-02, 04:43 PM
#15
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Message #2 from The Hitman
And here is his response after reading this thread.
After reading the forum I have to say Ted is mostly right. Almost all of the coil-on-plug setups I have seen cause problems for the owners once power levels rise. Almost all of the Nissan guys have dramas, and running any more boost than stock usually requires plug gaps to be almost halved to stop them mis-firing.
The Nissan S15 200SX runs coil-on-plug with inbuilt ignitors if you want to give that a try. But do not give them more than 1.8ms charge time or you will be replacing them quicker than you can buy them.
The Nissan S15 200SX runs coil-on-plug with inbuilt ignitors if you want to give that a try. But do not give them more than 1.8ms charge time or you will be replacing them quicker than you can buy them.
10-08-02, 07:04 PM
#16
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by Kurgan
Its not a spark plug wire expense problem.... CDI boxes aint cheap, especially for a 20B.
Its not a spark plug wire expense problem.... CDI boxes aint cheap, especially for a 20B.
Shame on you!
-Ted
10-08-02, 08:25 PM
#17
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Don't lecture me on costs man... I've spent plent. And my car runs... I'm just looking for upgrades and stuff. I don't see a need for a CDI box right now 
10-11-02, 11:08 AM
#18
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Does ANYONE know what year Chevy used coil on plug on their LT1 or LS1? If so, do you know the part number (not really necessary).
JIM LAB!!!! WHERE ARE YOU!!!
JIM LAB!!!! WHERE ARE YOU!!!
10-11-02, 12:26 PM
#20
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Originally posted by zyounker
Someone mentioned on another thread to look at the supra COP.. they don't upgrade there ignition, and we know they make it to 1000RWHP so. i would check that out!
Someone mentioned on another thread to look at the supra COP.. they don't upgrade there ignition, and we know they make it to 1000RWHP so. i would check that out!
Anyhow, on the haltech list, Mike mentioned that he is using 1 FD ignitor which has 3 inputs and outputs going to 3 FD leading coils... something to look at I suppose.
10-11-02, 01:04 PM
#21
Re: Reply #1 from The Hitman
I would be hesitant to try and run a waste-spark setup on these motors
10-11-02, 04:25 PM
#22
Lives on the Forum
"Wastespark" should technically mean firing more than one spark plug (just two?) in difference cylinders/rotors when one is not in it's ignition/power cycle.
Firing both spark plugs in one rotor does not technically meet the requirement of "wastespark".
-Ted
Firing both spark plugs in one rotor does not technically meet the requirement of "wastespark".
-Ted
10-11-02, 07:14 PM
#24
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Re: Re: Reply #1 from The Hitman
Originally posted by Jeff20B
Is it where you run a 20B like a V6 using three FC Leading coils like with a Haltec E6K as so many are doing while waiting for the E11?
Is it where you run a 20B like a V6 using three FC Leading coils like with a Haltec E6K as so many are doing while waiting for the E11?
just giving you a hard time
10-12-02, 04:09 AM
#25
BTW, Splitfire makes an upgrade coil on plug setup for the SR20DETs. S13/S14s do have a seperate ignitor chip tho. Also, All Q45s use COP. The z32 300zx(na or TT) both use the same ignitor. Also, the Infiniti j30 uses the na z32 motor so it also uses that COP setup and ignitor.