Can FC beat FD???
07-30-06, 06:47 PM
#1
Mr Stryder
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Can FC beat FD???
I'm in a bit of a bind. I like FC alot and how cost effective owning one is, but my biggest concern is can I take an FD witha FC. I drive around BMW's Mercedes and Porches all the time especially at the track, it's rediculous!!! 
The FD is known as a Porche Killa!!! 
which sounds awsome to me but so is an FC for its time of course. But Obviously depending on the Driver, will The FC at it's limits put up a at least a fight with and FD or a Porche 911??? It's my biggest concern right now, my Rex8 Is always getting spanked except for the really old Golfs and stupid Type R Hondas/Integras and ocassional Muscle Cars that show up at Nurmburg Ring 
The FD is known as a Porche Killa!!! which sounds awsome to me but so is an FC for its time of course. But Obviously depending on the Driver, will The FC at it's limits put up a at least a fight with and FD or a Porche 911??? It's my biggest concern right now, my Rex8 Is always getting spanked except for the really old Golfs and stupid Type R Hondas/Integras and ocassional Muscle Cars that show up at Nurmburg Ring
Last edited by Renesis*696; 07-30-06 at 06:50 PM.
08-01-06, 05:23 PM
#4
FD has much better suspension and more room for wider tires than a stock body FC. FC has better aerodynamics than FD so it is more stable at very high speeds.
In the US an FC is 1/10th the cost of an FD, so it is easy to make a specialized FC faster in one or maybe two types of racing than an FD for the money, but in many places the cost difference isn't as much and the FD is a better base to start from as it is an all around better car (except for that 200mph flipping nonsense.)
In the US an FC is 1/10th the cost of an FD, so it is easy to make a specialized FC faster in one or maybe two types of racing than an FD for the money, but in many places the cost difference isn't as much and the FD is a better base to start from as it is an all around better car (except for that 200mph flipping nonsense.)
08-01-06, 08:50 PM
#7
From Wikipedia:
Second Generation:
The second generation RX-7 ("FC", VIN begins JM1FC3 or JMZFC1), still known as the "Savanna RX-7" in Japan, featured a complete restyling reminiscent of the Porsche 944. While the SA22/FB was a purer sports car, the FC tended toward the softer sport-tourer trends of its day. Handling was much improved, with less of the oversteer tendencies of the FB. Steering was more precise, with rack and pinion steering replacing the old recirculating ball steering of the FB. Disc brakes also became standard, with some models (S4: GXL, GTU, Turbo II, Convertible; S5: GTUs, Turbo, Convertible) offering four-piston front brakes. The revised independent rear suspension incorporated special toe control hubs which were capable of introducing a limited degree of passive rear steering under cornering loads. The rear seats were optional in some models of the FC RX-7, but are not commonly found.
Though about 80 lb heavier and more isolated than its predecessor, the FC continued to win accolades from the press. The FC RX-7 was Motor Trend's Import Car of the Year for 1986, and the Turbo II was on Car and Driver magazine's Ten Best list for a second time in 1987.
In 1988, a convertible version started production in atmospheric and turbocharged form, proving an instant success. Despite production ceasing in October 1991, Mazda built a limited run of 500 convertibles for 1992 as "specials" for the domestic market only. In Japan, the United Kingdom, and other regions outside the US, a turbocharged version of the convertible was available.
In the Japanese market, only the turbo engine was available; the atmospheric version was allowed only as an export. This can be attributed to insurance companies penalising turbo cars (thus restricting potential sales). Overall, the second generation was the most successful for Mazda saleswise, with 86,000 units sold in 1986 for the US alone.
Third Generation:
The third and final generation of the RX-7, FD (with FD3S for the JDM and JM1FD for the USA VIN), was an outright, no-compromise sports car by Japanese standards. It featured an aerodynamic, futuristic-looking body design (a testament to its near 11-year lifespan). The 13B-REW was the first-ever mass-produced sequential twin-turbocharger system to export from Japan, boosting power to 255 hp (190 kW) in 1993 and finally 280 ps (276 hp, 208 kW, the Japanese manufacturers' gentlemen's agreement on engine power) by the time production ended in Japan in 2002.
The FD RX-7 was Motor Trend's Import\Domestic Car of the Year and Playboy's Car of the Year for 1993. It also made Car and Driver magazine's Ten Best list for 1993 through 1995.
The sequential twin turbocharged system was a very complex piece of engineering, developed with the aid of Hitachi and previously used on the domestic Cosmo series (JC Cosmo=90–95). The system was comprised of two small turbochargers, one to provide torque at low RPM. The 2nd unit was on standby until the upper half of the rpm range during full throttle acceleration. The first turbocharger provided 10 psi of boost from 1800 rpm, and the 2nd turbocharger was activated at 4000 rpm and also provided 10 psi (70 kPa). The changeover process was incredibly smooth, and provided linear acceleration and a very wide torque curve throughout the entire rev range.
Handling in the FD was regarded as world-class, and it is still regarded as being one of the finest handling and best balanced cars of all time. The continued use of the front-midship engine and drivetrain layout, combined with an equal front-rear weight distribution and low center of gravity made the FD a very competent car at the limits.
Second Generation:
The second generation RX-7 ("FC", VIN begins JM1FC3 or JMZFC1), still known as the "Savanna RX-7" in Japan, featured a complete restyling reminiscent of the Porsche 944. While the SA22/FB was a purer sports car, the FC tended toward the softer sport-tourer trends of its day. Handling was much improved, with less of the oversteer tendencies of the FB. Steering was more precise, with rack and pinion steering replacing the old recirculating ball steering of the FB. Disc brakes also became standard, with some models (S4: GXL, GTU, Turbo II, Convertible; S5: GTUs, Turbo, Convertible) offering four-piston front brakes. The revised independent rear suspension incorporated special toe control hubs which were capable of introducing a limited degree of passive rear steering under cornering loads. The rear seats were optional in some models of the FC RX-7, but are not commonly found.
Though about 80 lb heavier and more isolated than its predecessor, the FC continued to win accolades from the press. The FC RX-7 was Motor Trend's Import Car of the Year for 1986, and the Turbo II was on Car and Driver magazine's Ten Best list for a second time in 1987.
In 1988, a convertible version started production in atmospheric and turbocharged form, proving an instant success. Despite production ceasing in October 1991, Mazda built a limited run of 500 convertibles for 1992 as "specials" for the domestic market only. In Japan, the United Kingdom, and other regions outside the US, a turbocharged version of the convertible was available.
In the Japanese market, only the turbo engine was available; the atmospheric version was allowed only as an export. This can be attributed to insurance companies penalising turbo cars (thus restricting potential sales). Overall, the second generation was the most successful for Mazda saleswise, with 86,000 units sold in 1986 for the US alone.
Third Generation:
The third and final generation of the RX-7, FD (with FD3S for the JDM and JM1FD for the USA VIN), was an outright, no-compromise sports car by Japanese standards. It featured an aerodynamic, futuristic-looking body design (a testament to its near 11-year lifespan). The 13B-REW was the first-ever mass-produced sequential twin-turbocharger system to export from Japan, boosting power to 255 hp (190 kW) in 1993 and finally 280 ps (276 hp, 208 kW, the Japanese manufacturers' gentlemen's agreement on engine power) by the time production ended in Japan in 2002.
The FD RX-7 was Motor Trend's Import\Domestic Car of the Year and Playboy's Car of the Year for 1993. It also made Car and Driver magazine's Ten Best list for 1993 through 1995.
The sequential twin turbocharged system was a very complex piece of engineering, developed with the aid of Hitachi and previously used on the domestic Cosmo series (JC Cosmo=90–95). The system was comprised of two small turbochargers, one to provide torque at low RPM. The 2nd unit was on standby until the upper half of the rpm range during full throttle acceleration. The first turbocharger provided 10 psi of boost from 1800 rpm, and the 2nd turbocharger was activated at 4000 rpm and also provided 10 psi (70 kPa). The changeover process was incredibly smooth, and provided linear acceleration and a very wide torque curve throughout the entire rev range.
Handling in the FD was regarded as world-class, and it is still regarded as being one of the finest handling and best balanced cars of all time. The continued use of the front-midship engine and drivetrain layout, combined with an equal front-rear weight distribution and low center of gravity made the FD a very competent car at the limits.
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08-01-06, 09:01 PM
#8
Originally Posted by BLUE TII
(except for that 200mph flipping nonsense.)
Oh, BTW, after owning both, go FD if you can afford it, but FC can be damn powerful too.
08-01-06, 11:24 PM
#9
Lives on the Forum
I think it's pretty well documented that the FD aero was just not stable on that LSR run.
Racing Beat was trying to get the aero work as minimal as possible when the car flipped.
Mind you, a lot of the trick aero stuff is under the car.
-Ted
Racing Beat was trying to get the aero work as minimal as possible when the car flipped.
Mind you, a lot of the trick aero stuff is under the car.
-Ted
08-01-06, 11:34 PM
#10
curb weight on an FB = ~2400lbs with a 12a
curb weight on an FC = ~2600lbs for a base model, close to 3,000lbs for a TII.
how is 200-600lbs heavier considered "80lbs"?
The FD at the salt flats had barely any air foils or anything visually modified from stock and it flipped at 233mph. The FC flipped at 215 mph...
The FD has a .29 drag coeficient, what does the FC have?
curb weight on an FC = ~2600lbs for a base model, close to 3,000lbs for a TII.
how is 200-600lbs heavier considered "80lbs"?
The FD at the salt flats had barely any air foils or anything visually modified from stock and it flipped at 233mph. The FC flipped at 215 mph...
The FD has a .29 drag coeficient, what does the FC have?
08-01-06, 11:42 PM
#11
Lives on the Forum
Maybe the 80lb difference quoted is between the heaviest of the FB's and the lightest of the FC's? I don't really know what the heaviest stock FB is, but I bet it's heavier than the 2400lb 12a number quoted above.
08-02-06, 12:04 AM
#13
Senior Member
hands down fc... but really there are too many variables in racing
if oyu drive both back to back youll like the fd better without a doubt, i know i did it really is a true sportscar whereas the fc feels like more of a grand tourer.
with that being said i own an fc and by the time i can afford an fd i could just save up some more and get a used boxster s. but if i had to chose between the fc and fd my choice would be the fd
fc is only cheaper in the starting price otherwise its just as expensive to mod....
i think the fd ruled the 90's along with the 993 turbo for best sports cars ni the 90's... then came the zo6... elise... cayman/boxster s , 911turbo, s2000 (yes i said it) and other sports cars which made the fd an afterthought
but the fc is still fun as hell to drive regardless of it being "worse".... im not winning any championships so this car is good enough for me when i want to have fun driving
if oyu drive both back to back youll like the fd better without a doubt, i know i did it really is a true sportscar whereas the fc feels like more of a grand tourer.
with that being said i own an fc and by the time i can afford an fd i could just save up some more and get a used boxster s. but if i had to chose between the fc and fd my choice would be the fd
fc is only cheaper in the starting price otherwise its just as expensive to mod....
i think the fd ruled the 90's along with the 993 turbo for best sports cars ni the 90's... then came the zo6... elise... cayman/boxster s , 911turbo, s2000 (yes i said it) and other sports cars which made the fd an afterthought
but the fc is still fun as hell to drive regardless of it being "worse".... im not winning any championships so this car is good enough for me when i want to have fun driving
08-02-06, 10:26 AM
#14
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For the price difference, to me the FD isn't an upgrade worth the cash. I mean, I love the car and all, but about the only real difference it's got is that it's newer. The updated interior is great, but as sexy as the FD is (externally), the FC is still majorly badass, and the handling difference isn't great enough to warrant my concern. I'd give up a little newness for the drastically reduced price.
Oh yeah, not to mention, you can't get an FD in convertible form.
Oh yeah, not to mention, you can't get an FD in convertible form.
08-02-06, 10:38 AM
#15
Mazdaspeeding
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Stock for stock you need only go by this list
http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2006/stockc.html
Simply put the FD owns NA and Tii's
Modified: Still owns
http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2006/stockc.html
Simply put the FD owns NA and Tii's
Modified: Still owns
08-02-06, 06:00 PM
#20
Originally Posted by JWteknix
my friends FC will eat an FD any day of the week
Like we both said, any car can beat any car, it's all about the money you invest in it and what kind of racing you're going for.
08-04-06, 02:54 PM
#21
The FD at the salt flats had barely any air foils or anything visually modified from stock and it flipped at 233mph. The FC flipped at 215 mph...
The '86 Racing Beat FC hit 238 mph in a STOCK body class (no aero allowed) with only a 500 hp turbo bridge 2 rotor.
After flipping once while stock body the '93 Racing Beat FD managed 242 mph in a modified body class with a HUGE rear spoiler, smoothed fiberglass 1 piece front end and a 900 hp turbo 3 rotor.
I have seen both cars at 7 stock, the FC could pass as a street car nearly as easy as my daily driver (I don't hav my interior back in after the repaint), the FD is full race...
The FC was designed in the new Mazda windtunnel at Miyoshi proving grounds and with the optional "aero kit" had a .29 Cd and a .08 coefficient of lift front and .07 coefficient of lift rear (as per Yamaguchi book).
The FD is sexier (I think the sexiest japanese car ever), but I don't think the aerodynamics were quite as good as FC. Please feel free to find the #s to prove me wrong on that one.
I agree the FD is sexy as hell and a much better performer all around; but the FC has some strengths, such as much cheaper, better quality build (FD interior anyone?), stronger drivetrain components (drag racers use FC trans, and rear end), lighter (don't believe Mazda's PR #s- look at forum members cornerweights) and I believe aerodynamics.
The '86 Racing Beat FC hit 238 mph in a STOCK body class (no aero allowed) with only a 500 hp turbo bridge 2 rotor.
After flipping once while stock body the '93 Racing Beat FD managed 242 mph in a modified body class with a HUGE rear spoiler, smoothed fiberglass 1 piece front end and a 900 hp turbo 3 rotor.
I have seen both cars at 7 stock, the FC could pass as a street car nearly as easy as my daily driver (I don't hav my interior back in after the repaint), the FD is full race...
The FC was designed in the new Mazda windtunnel at Miyoshi proving grounds and with the optional "aero kit" had a .29 Cd and a .08 coefficient of lift front and .07 coefficient of lift rear (as per Yamaguchi book).
The FD is sexier (I think the sexiest japanese car ever), but I don't think the aerodynamics were quite as good as FC. Please feel free to find the #s to prove me wrong on that one.
I agree the FD is sexy as hell and a much better performer all around; but the FC has some strengths, such as much cheaper, better quality build (FD interior anyone?), stronger drivetrain components (drag racers use FC trans, and rear end), lighter (don't believe Mazda's PR #s- look at forum members cornerweights) and I believe aerodynamics.
08-04-06, 05:27 PM
#22
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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Originally Posted by JWteknix
my friends FC will eat an FD any day of the week so like said before all depends on the money invested in to your projects setup
.
08-04-06, 07:59 PM
#24
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yeah you might know him his name is kevin and lives in wayne im NOT saying its the fastest FC in the world and can beat any thing. its not even reassembled at the moment but will be soon with a t 78. http://www.nopistons.com/forums/inde...w_item&CID=158 this is his car should be completed soon. this thing is beautiful. btw i was not talking any shyt i was just implying the more time, money, and effort you put in to your car the better it will be in the long run, and anything could be faster then anything.