jantore

After beeing inspired by a few other ppl here on the forum, and having a dream about building a 4 rotor for a few years the oppertunity arrived. I decided to sell my 13b-rew BP engine and got a decent price for it with everything. So that prompted a 4 rotor project.

The engine will be put in my S6 Re-Amemiya GT300 Wide Body Race car. It will be a natrurally Aspirated engine producing arround 600rwhp and have a redline at 9000 rpm. It will have a Liberty Gears/Tremec TKO600 dogbox as well.

The kit will basicly be the same as the Kiwi-Re kit. It's beeing sourced out by another company but will come from the same manufacturer.

The eninge parts list

4-rotor kit.
Kit includes:
1x 4-rotor crank (cross drilled and ground to standard or custom spec)
2x modified stationary gears & carriers
2x modified S6 center plates
2x counterweights (custom rear, modified front)
1x custom dowel set
1x custom thru bolt set (10mm or 12mm. Block will need boring if using 12mm)
Center plate external oil feeds
All parts supplied are brand new

New Mazda parts.
Includes:
Front & rear plate & remaining center plate (all S6)
4x S5 turbo rotor housings
4x S5 N/A rotors
2x remaining stationary gears (20B)
24x 2mm NRS Ceramic corner seals & springs
24x side seals & springs
Oil seal cases, O rings, & springs
Waterseals & gasket set
Torrington bearings, thrust plate, and washers
NRS 2mm Ceramic Apex Seals

Racing light weight flywheel assembly to suit 7.25 clutch (includes flex plate)
Quartermaster V-drive twin plate clutch

Extra mods:
CNC lighten rotors (all)
Race balance entire rotating assembly
Machine rotor bearing oil grooves (all) - reliability
Polish rotor faces (all) - power
Fill original side ports (all)
Water jacket mod to rotor housings. Includes rigidity relief (all) - reliability & housing life
Trailing spark plug hole mod. (all) - reliability/housing life, and slightly more power

Mazda Factory Race dry sump system

Will be using a Motec M800 with 8 ignition outputs, most likely Motec CDI boxes and Crane Cams PS92 coils. With 8x500 or 550cc injectors.

The throttlebodies have not been decided yet, but we are leaning towards a make that is beeing made in england. As the engine will be built by Pip Gardner of WGT Autodevelopments in england. And there will be a cold air box made as well, to get cold air to the engine instead of having the airfilters hanging over the engine drawing in hot air.

I started on the mockup engine that i will use to make up engine mounts for the front of the engine as we will be using S6 engine mounts for the rear of the engine. And also for making brackets for mounting of the coils, as there will be 8 of them

Here is a pick of the mockup engine, still only with dowles in it.


And a pick of the old setup


And a pic of the car


More updates will come as the project progresses

Shainiac

iTrader: (7)

Looks like an awesome build! So its going to be peripheral ports? Looks like youre definately not cutting any corners on this build.

RX-Heven

iTrader: (1)

Nice ride and look forward to seeing your progress.
The only thing I see wrong with that car is the the steering wheel is on the wrong side

Things are getting awfully silly around these parts.

jantore

Yeah it's going to be PP. Can't get it to run with the intermediate plates like that. But has always been PP. Looking forward to getting it finished. I also have some work to do on the car as well.

RX-Heven

No no it's on the right side Did u notice i said right :P hehe. It's actually quite good to drive on the track, since we have mostly right hand turns on our race tracks here in norway.

JT

TAZ-NZ

Can I get you just to confirm a couple of number for me while you've still got the engine and the mockup stage, I'm just to try to do the number on the short block length of a quad rotor engine.

My best guess puts the housing widths at:

a) Rear Housing = ~60mm (measured from rotor surface to bellhouse mating surface)

b) Rotor Housing = 80mm (as per has spec)

c) Center Housing = ~50mm (rotor surface to rotor surface)

d) Front housing = ~40mm (measured from rotor surface to front cover mating surface)

So for a quad rotor the math should read like this: a+4b+3c+d=total lenght.

Which means my best guess puts the length of the short block at 570mm (~22.5")

Can you give me the real number based off your engine, I'd be interest to see how close I am to the actual figures.

jantore

Guess what, ur spot on. If u bolt it up to the stock fd. The front plate lines up straight with the crossmember bar that sits infront of the stock pully. It will line up with that on the front side. So 57cm is the correct length. With the oilpump cover the "shortblock" is 73cm long

JT

TAZ-NZ

Cool, thanks for that.

I look forward to watching your progress, good luck with it.

bosscobra

iTrader: (1)

are the dowels for this longer then a 13b or does it just use twice as many? and who did you get your tension bolts and dowles from>? trying to price out what it would cost to get one of these put together to shortblock status with the spare parts i have laying around, and the only question right now is what would i do for dowels and tension bolts

mr1600

Nice car

Really nice kit on your batty!!

Love the wheels, mind if i ask what they are?

Sounds like there are a few of these precision engineering 4 rotor shaft being exported over the ocean at the moment (judging by the forums) and i know why just from the noise make by this setup??

Good luck with your project !!!

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

good luck with it.

jantore

The wheels are Volk GT7

bosscobra

The studs are twice as long. So they go straight trough.

JT

bosscobra

iTrader: (1)

did you machine them or source them from somewere? im assuming you just went with big studs instead of the dowels and tension bolts then?

jantore

Why would i need that, it's a NA engine. So no need for anything else then tension bolts. They are beeing made by the person making the entire 4 rotor kit. As u can see it's in the same list as the rest of the parts for the kit.

JT

SpiritR_21

Can't wait to see it finished.

R-R-Rx7

iTrader: (24)

who's producing a 4rotor kit?

TAZ-NZ

Kiwi-RE in New Zealand.

Their products are distributed in the USA by AMV Racing

X-Treme Rotaries (aka Guru Racing Products) in Australia also makes quad rotor eccentric shafts.

R-R-Rx7

iTrader: (24)

Good stuff..i had no idea who produced the 4rotor kits...

Thats defenately my next project

Keep us updated as i find this build the most interesting of all the other

Thanks

Lasse wankel

Wow this is gonna be a really amazing engine,like it a lot If you want ML Wankeltrim can do the PP porting becausse we have the ability to port the housings with hi velocity and flow leading to good torque and horsepower We also has made some special exhaust sleeves for the exhaust ports. But 650 whp is ca 720 hp in engine isnt that a little bit optimistic Anyway, love to see and hear this engine on the dyno soon!

/Lasse

jantore

hehe it's not 650rwhp lasse it's going to be about 600rwhp. And the engine will be built in england. So the person there will handle the pp ports and porting. His last race 20b pp made 470rwhp on a safe tune. He think i could have gotten it above 500rwhp if he pulled it abit further. So it's going to be a powerfull engine. Goal is to get out the same HP as the 787b had once we are done

And the drivetrain loss i don't know what will be cause i will have a diffrent gearbox.

JT

vest_racing

Kiwi re don`t make any 4 rotor kit, they just sell it...

vest_racing

This will be a sweet engine, just remember to get your UK builder to take alot of piccys..

TAZ-NZ

I'd be really interest to know who make them then?

I can easy beleave they outsource the machining of the parts to engineering firm, but I've yet to see anything that would make be beleave they are purchasing the kits from another company and reselling them as there own. I've seen a quad rotor e-shalf from Kiwi-RE in person and there were noticable difference to images I've seen of guru racing e-shalfs.

There are number of other custom e-shalfs out there mostly 3 rotor setups, but they've all been basically one off items, nothing that would point to anyone other than Kiwi-RE or Guru racing that is producing quad rotor parts on any kind of a regular basis. (ok mazda race engines, but they don't count)

If there is a third yet un-named company that specialise in quad rotor engine parts, I'd be very interested to know who they are, because they are flying well below radar, which is the last thing you want to do in business. Also I find it very hard to beleive that AMV Racing would openly admit to being a reseller of Kiwi-RE parts if in they could just source those same parts from the original manufacturer instead.

I did see a race team or company website once that had something about inhouse CAD drawings for 26B, but no products related to them on there website.

If you know something more about the manufacturer of this kits or the parts there of, I'd be really interest to know it.

vest_racing

Have to look into it..

But as far as I now the company that source the 4 rotor kit for my get them from the same person that Kiwi re does, but cheaper...


cheers

vest_racing

Sorry for the off topic JT!


Precision Engineering is making the 4 rotor kit, but Kiwi Re takes the credit for the once they sell..



Cheers

TAZ-NZ

Yeah Sorry JT, didn't mean to highjack your thread.

Guess it comes down to who came up with the design (more than 50% of all name brand products are designed in house and out sourced to other companies for manufacturing). But if as you say Precision Engineering is selling them direct without any complaints from Kiwi-RE, then either there is a regional distribution agreement between the two companies, or Precision Engineering designed and machines the parts and Kiwi-RE is just mass marketing them.

Either way interesting information to know, Thanks.

It's crazy how insanely complex some manufacturing arrangements get these days, try this for any example for the PC Business, Dell owns the Alienware Brand, that buys it graphics cards from Diamond, that sells rebranded GeCube cards with custom firmware, that GeCube manufactures them with ATI GPUs and Samsung RAM, plus components from dozen or so other suppliers, probably to a ATI reference design. (total off topic again sorry JT)