SPOautos

BadDog - How do you like the 850 pri injectors? When you installed them did you mill down your rail or use a extra oring? Did it affect driveability any or did you just install them, change it in the PFC and go? I'm fixing to install 850pri and have heard it might take some tuning to get my car nice and smooth.

What do you think about that?

oh yea, NICE dyno chart!!!! With some drag radials or slicks you'll be brushing high 11's!!!!!!

Thanks,
STEPHEN

rx7tt95

Stephen,
The 850's are fine if you dial them down at idle. If you look at my 290+ hp runs, check out the a/f ratio. Perfect. After taking out fuel at idle they were perfect.

I used 550cc O-rings and had no problems.
Michel

Badog

Stephen,

Drives great with 850s. I changed a couple of settings with the datalogit. I think all the INJ main settings for timing are available from the commander too, though. Not much tuing needed. You might have mess with a couple of idle settings, but not anything more than you have done before.

I did the O-ring method. Then I had hard starting. I thought the O-ring was leaking and I may have used non-fuel safe rings. So I took them out. Plus, I wanted a dyno run with A/F on stock injectors first. Still had the hard starting (have to key it over twice to start is all) ever since the new fuel pump. Was thinking it was leak at the fuel pump, but its consistent at least.

Thanks! I like the chart too! Been taking my time and doing things slowly since '96.

I have a set of rims that might get some slicks on them, once (read:if) I get up to near 380RWHP. Goal of all this is to get a consistent performer that can run 11's and still drive everyday.

CCarlisi

RX7tt95

Great post, thanks for the info. I'm a couple steps behind you, this gives me an idea of the power gains I can expect. I'm suprised that the IC provided only a 13hp increase (even in light of the circumstances).

rx7tt95

IC's generally show very little on the dyno. They're most effective at speed. The stock IC is very small, and at moderate boost levels, not very restrictive. There's also less volume to fill. I tested the stock, M2 medium and CWR back to back, and all were within 5 hp. Go figure.
Michel

Badog

Did some checking on the IAT sensor and how it responds to changes in the UIM.

thread here

SPOautos

So are you saying you did the oring methond then pulled out the extra oring just using the normal stock 850 oring or the stock 550 oring and it was better just stock like that. Did you mill down the rail or anything so they would seat deeper? Did you ever find out what the hard starting was about???

BTW - good work on the iat, i always speculated that but didnt have another sensor to check it.

Thanks man,
STEPHEN

Badog

I am going to do it differently, when I put them back in. I am going to use the method that Michel suggests, use the O-ring from the 550s. Next method I would use would be to mill, and lastly, add more O-rings.

The way I had it before was the last one, an additional O-ring. It was good for testing, but needless to say I was second guessing myself alot.

I still have the hard starting, and Nocab72 and I have confirmed that it started for both us right after we upgraded fuel pumps. It starts on the 2nd key-turn, rather than the first. This is with fresh plugs for both of us. This testing has not escalated up my project list since the behavior is consistent, and currently just an irritant.

Badog

I re-charted the datalog to include knock. Someone was asking to see it.

rx7tt95

Just to let those who are interested know, I was not able to dyno again this weekend. The two local dynojets are both closed, with the one at Lethal Injection out of the ground and disassembled (after a move). The Dyno Shop is closed til early August, sigh...so I'm SOL unless I want to drive to the other side of the state.

I did talk to the owner of The Dyno Shop (Phil) and I told him about my predicament. He commented that there's really only one way to fudge the numbers if they're using WinPep and that is to change the elevation reading. The operator does not have access to temp/barometer/humidity readings. So for some reason, I'm down about 30hp. Guess this is where the hard part begins!
Michel

Qball

on the first dyno graph, was this a fourth gear run? i'm concerned with the midpipe i just installed. did your stock turbos creep at all? and what was the transition spike? and since you were using stock injectors.. what was the injector cycle max?

i have access to a dynojet. and i ran a 4th gear pull with my mods with the stock cat in place. i got 246hp SAE, 252hp uncorrected with a/f ratio in the 10s measured by a wideband lamda.

with my midpipe my car now sits around waiting for a PFC. was the pfc tuned for that run or was it still a base mod/stock map.

rx7tt95

Are you referring to my dyno graphs or badogs? The first dyno run (which was actually my latest) was done in third gear. And actually, I didn't think about that...perhaps that's part of the reason my runs were so low. All my previous runs were made in 4th. I do experience a bit of boost creep, but it's usually when I stomp on the gas in 5th, on the highway, in the lower rpm range. Otherwise, there isn't much. I use the AVC-R for boost control (which is/was a PITA to tune) and I do run the PFC. For safety, I've essentially maxed out the fuel maps above my desired boost levels. If I spike, it just goes overly rich. With tuning, you can remove the spike entirely with the AVC-R or the stock boost control system.
Michel

Qball

i was referring to badogs. but thanks for your input anyways. with the pfc's being backordered it gives me time to think about tuning issues.

for the moment i feel like sticking the cat back on just because of all the bad things that start to happen with a 3" open exhaust.

i already experience 16 psi spikes and a fuel cut following.. that was the first and only test drive. now my car is just being babied around when i go out. cant stand it when i line up with a car that i know i can beat stock and i cant even floor it =)

rx7tt95

I'd recommend putting the stock cat back on then. If you don't have anything to control the spikes (aftermarket controller or PFC) and the tuning isn't there for a midpipe, you're asking for trouble.
Michel

Badog

Dyno pulls are generally done in the a gear close to 1:1, which for us IS 4th gear.

The 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th questions are all answered already.

You can see the creep in the 2nd chart (not much), the spike is shown on the chart, the duty cycle is shown on the chart (93%) and it was a base map.

You mention your dyno pull but not at what boost you were at?

The PFC, in combination with the DATALOGIT, is the ticket. I don't have enough experience with the HALTECH, which I would consider a step up, but for ease of use and community support for tuning, PFC works for me.

Regards

Qball

thanks BADDOG

i ran my car on stock boost. on my run i hit 10psi on the primary then it spiked to 14 psi at the 4500rpm transition and quickly settled down to 8 psi all the way to redline.

a/f ratio was in the 10s through out the entire run.

Qball

here's my dyno run

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=100386

matty

-----------------
IC's generally show very little on the dyno. They're most effective at speed. The stock IC is very small, and at moderate boost levels, not very restrictive. There's also less volume to fill. I tested the stock, M2 medium and CWR back to back, and all were within 5 hp. Go figure.
--------------
I have been contemplating buying an intercooler...help me make my decision. My thinking now is that unless you road race (track) a car or run anything over 12.5 psi an IC really isnt needed. I am thinking that at 12 psi the stock ic will yield the same rwhp and 1/4 times as 12 psi w/ a large after mkt ic.

I really dont plan to track the car. My thesis is i will only benefit from an IC if i run more than 12 psi. Is this correct?

thanks...matt

fdracer

rx7tt or baddog, did you guys have to port your wastegates running this much hp?

Badog

Since the boost is moderate, no, no port of the wastegate.

I can tell from the 2nd chart that any more boost and I am going need to address the wastegate.

Badog

Well, I think of it as intake air temperatures and what how big (and what kind) of heat sink I want.

You cannot argue the relationship of intake air temperatures and horsepower. (Let's not even talk about gases and super-heating the combustion air...ala Smokey Yunicks <sp> direction)

You CAN "work" the intake air temp. down to make more horsepower at a given ambient air temperature.

So, how quickly can your "heatsink" get back or close to ambient air?

Hookup a couple of air temperature probes and drive around with them for awhile. I did that for over a year before I upgraded anything on the car.

I am very happy with my FMIC. My car has never run cooler or better. Of course I upgraded my radiator too!

Apexi

Nice numbers, but I'm a bit confused. Did you say stock block as in stock motor, no porting? A ported motor with all the bolt on mods, will pull 340rwhp @13psi, and usually around 320rwhp @12psi.

So if you pulled near 340rwhp at 12psi on a bone stock motor with no porting, then I'm shocked

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

I know someone is going to raise the flag on me....and to be honest, i would'nt have beleived it if i did'nt see it with my own eyes....but anyways....there is a guy in my rotary power northwest club who has all the bolt-ons with a rebuilt engine with no porting, and stock turbos who just put down 354rwhp@7250rpms! Randall is the guys name. Like i said, if i had'nt seen the dyno sheet form excessive motorsports....i would have NEVER beleived it for myself. CJ

rx7tt95

CJ, if you look at my charts, I hit 330 with a/f ratios in the low to mid 10's. 340, even 350 is possible on the stock engine with the sequentials at 14psi and agressive tuning.
Michel

Badog

Stock means it's never been opened.

And since the last time I checked, you had to OPEN it up to port it, it must mean its not ported.

If you're going to be shocked, be shocked its on a basemap. With tuning and no bending of physics, it should make more than that tuned.

I was forced to go on vacation and missed my last Friday window for tuning.

Good news is that my wideband O2 is in and I can start street tuning in between dyno sessions.