what would win
03-13-07, 01:31 PM
#26
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Back to the original topic, I raced a 383 superbee, not sure what year, that the owner said was dead stock. IIRC it ran 9.8 IN THE 1/8th mile at around 74MPH on BFG Drag radials. T
That nite I was running 9.2 78-81MPH 2.5-2.6 60' crappy tires (13BRE FC, cosmo turbo's 12PSI haltech) 260ish WHP.
You should have no problem destroying it in a good running stock FD if its truly stock.
That nite I was running 9.2 78-81MPH 2.5-2.6 60' crappy tires (13BRE FC, cosmo turbo's 12PSI haltech) 260ish WHP.
You should have no problem destroying it in a good running stock FD if its truly stock.
03-13-07, 01:35 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by BackyardSog
All i said was production car. You could still walk into any dealership and order one of these cars if you had the money. Then how about we move on to the next 10 sec muscle car on the list.
"The 1969 ZL-1 Corvettes
Only 2 of these Corvettes were built with the ZL1 engine and sold to the public (a total of 69 Camaros also received this engine). One was a Daytona Yellow car with side-pipes and the other was a Can-Am White t-top coupe with (what are now known as) black "ZL1" stripes. Adding the ZL1 option added over $4,700 to the price of the vehicle because a host of other options were required (or automatically included). Technically, the ZL1 was a $3,010 option that consisted of an assortment of aluminum cylinder block and heads on top of the $1,032.15 L88 race option.
Unlike popular belief, the engine option was actually widely available via any dealer, the only reason only 2 were delivered was the high price of the option in comparison to the similar (on paper) L88 option. The added cost simply discouraged sales. The ZL1 motor was developed by Chevrolet with the intended purpose of racing. Therefore it was necessary for Chevrolet to produce it as a regular production motor to qualify it. But it is likely that without the efforts of Zora Duntov the engine would never have made it to production. Chevrolet produced the ZL1 motor as a RPO (Regular Production Order) option in 1969 only, and only available as a RPO option on the Corvette. Additionally there were 1969 ZL1 Camaros produced; but only as COPO (Central office Production Order) orders."
"Any 69 ZL1 is easily capable of 11s with any competent driver, and running on drag slicks, can easily run deep into the 10s. The quickest documented ZL-1 was a 10.89 @ 130 by Motor Trend in 1968. Some people thought it was 10.60 @ 132 documented by Motor Trend in Oct 69, but that was actually the same car with a prototype LT2 454 motor. (additional details of this can be found in "Classic Corvette, The First 30 Years" by Mike Mueller, Pages 313 - 319, 2003 edition, published by Crestline - MBI Publishing Co.) Zora Arkas Duntoff himself claimed 10.5 on slicks. As we talk about tires, please remember, this is 1969 technology. Slicks of that era were not as sticky as some of today's radials that we find on some sports cars. On top of this, the ZL1's top speed with stock gearing was close to 200 mph, and it could easily go beyond if the gearing was changed. According to a statement by Gib Hufstater (a Chevrolet developmental engineer) in a 1999 interview, "Tom (Langdon) built the engine, I built the car. He got about 710 horsepower out of it."
Im sure these cars were intended for drag racing. But its still considered a production car. Thats the only claim i have made. I dont even know if you could register the ZL-1 or not. But i do see a licence plate in the picture. But to say " Those old musce cars were SLOW as molasses by today's standards" is a pretty naive.
"The 1969 ZL-1 Corvettes
Only 2 of these Corvettes were built with the ZL1 engine and sold to the public (a total of 69 Camaros also received this engine). One was a Daytona Yellow car with side-pipes and the other was a Can-Am White t-top coupe with (what are now known as) black "ZL1" stripes. Adding the ZL1 option added over $4,700 to the price of the vehicle because a host of other options were required (or automatically included). Technically, the ZL1 was a $3,010 option that consisted of an assortment of aluminum cylinder block and heads on top of the $1,032.15 L88 race option.
Unlike popular belief, the engine option was actually widely available via any dealer, the only reason only 2 were delivered was the high price of the option in comparison to the similar (on paper) L88 option. The added cost simply discouraged sales. The ZL1 motor was developed by Chevrolet with the intended purpose of racing. Therefore it was necessary for Chevrolet to produce it as a regular production motor to qualify it. But it is likely that without the efforts of Zora Duntov the engine would never have made it to production. Chevrolet produced the ZL1 motor as a RPO (Regular Production Order) option in 1969 only, and only available as a RPO option on the Corvette. Additionally there were 1969 ZL1 Camaros produced; but only as COPO (Central office Production Order) orders."
"Any 69 ZL1 is easily capable of 11s with any competent driver, and running on drag slicks, can easily run deep into the 10s. The quickest documented ZL-1 was a 10.89 @ 130 by Motor Trend in 1968. Some people thought it was 10.60 @ 132 documented by Motor Trend in Oct 69, but that was actually the same car with a prototype LT2 454 motor. (additional details of this can be found in "Classic Corvette, The First 30 Years" by Mike Mueller, Pages 313 - 319, 2003 edition, published by Crestline - MBI Publishing Co.) Zora Arkas Duntoff himself claimed 10.5 on slicks. As we talk about tires, please remember, this is 1969 technology. Slicks of that era were not as sticky as some of today's radials that we find on some sports cars. On top of this, the ZL1's top speed with stock gearing was close to 200 mph, and it could easily go beyond if the gearing was changed. According to a statement by Gib Hufstater (a Chevrolet developmental engineer) in a 1999 interview, "Tom (Langdon) built the engine, I built the car. He got about 710 horsepower out of it."
Im sure these cars were intended for drag racing. But its still considered a production car. Thats the only claim i have made. I dont even know if you could register the ZL-1 or not. But i do see a licence plate in the picture. But to say " Those old musce cars were SLOW as molasses by today's standards" is a pretty naive.
The ZL1 produced 376 SAE NET HP as installed in the vehicle. As such, is was a high 13 second car.
Secondly, those old muscle cars were slow by todays standards.
03-13-07, 01:43 PM
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Pete Simpson's ZL1 engine dyno results:
427 GROSS HP - baseline - with no engine accessories, no air cleaner, no water pump, a huge velocity stack and open stock exhaust manifolds:
427 GROSS HP - baseline - with no engine accessories, no air cleaner, no water pump, a huge velocity stack and open stock exhaust manifolds:
Last edited by Mr rx-7 tt; 03-13-07 at 01:49 PM.
03-13-07, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by slo
Back to the original topic, I raced a 383 superbee, not sure what year, that the owner said was dead stock. IIRC it ran 9.8 IN THE 1/8th mile at around 74MPH on BFG Drag radials. T
That nite I was running 9.2 78-81MPH 2.5-2.6 60' crappy tires (13BRE FC, cosmo turbo's 12PSI haltech) 260ish WHP.
You should have no problem destroying it in a good running stock FD if its truly stock.
That nite I was running 9.2 78-81MPH 2.5-2.6 60' crappy tires (13BRE FC, cosmo turbo's 12PSI haltech) 260ish WHP.
You should have no problem destroying it in a good running stock FD if its truly stock.
03-13-07, 09:12 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by BackyardSog
The First 30 Years" by Mike Mueller, Pages 313 - 319, 2003 edition, published by Crestline - MBI Publishing Co.) Zora Arkas Duntoff himself claimed 10.5 on slicks. As we talk about tires, please remember, this is 1969 technology. Slicks of that era were not as sticky as some of today's radials that we find on some sports cars. On top of this, the ZL1's top speed with stock gearing was close to 200 mph, and it could easily go beyond if the gearing was changed. According to a statement by Gib Hufstater (a Chevrolet developmental engineer) in a 1999 interview, "Tom (Langdon) built the engine, I built the car. He got about 710 horsepower out of it."
The car was specially built and prepared by Chevy's "skunk-works" operation under the direction of none other than Zora Arkus Duntov himself, who also did the driving. To say that it was "well tuned" would undoubtedly be an understatement. It was stripped of its bumpers, spare tire, heater, headlamps, entire exhaust system, interior upholstery and "etc." It was fitted with a racing clutch and a set of long tube headers with open side pipes. It was also equipped with 10" wide racing slicks on 9.5" wide rims and a 4 speed manual with a 3.70 axle ratio.
It weighed in at a feathery 2,908 pounds (plus fuel and driver) in its stripped and modified condition, which is more than 400 pounds lighter than the production versions. The best it could manage was a 12.1 @ 116 MPH.
It weighed in at a feathery 2,908 pounds (plus fuel and driver) in its stripped and modified condition, which is more than 400 pounds lighter than the production versions. The best it could manage was a 12.1 @ 116 MPH.
03-13-07, 09:33 PM
#32
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Well, there ya have it. So much for the ZL1 Vette myth. Friggin' Bigfoot debunked. LFAO!!!
Sloooooooooooooow Muscle Cars in relation to today's cars. You run your A/C in an AMG E55 Benz with a car load of people listening to Mozart sipping Champagne while watching Zora sweating his azz off working that manual drag car for every thing its worth...Pass the Grey Poupon Jeves!
See ya,
-Matt
Sloooooooooooooow Muscle Cars in relation to today's cars. You run your A/C in an AMG E55 Benz with a car load of people listening to Mozart sipping Champagne while watching Zora sweating his azz off working that manual drag car for every thing its worth...Pass the Grey Poupon Jeves!
See ya,
-Matt
03-15-07, 12:56 PM
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The part in the Corvette article about, "the standing quarter in 12.1 @ 116 is merely terrifying," was funny.
At 3100 lbs race weight, using trap speed HP calculator, the car comes out to about 383 wheel HP.
At 3100 lbs race weight, using trap speed HP calculator, the car comes out to about 383 wheel HP.
03-16-07, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by greg schroeder
The part in the Corvette article about, "the standing quarter in 12.1 @ 116 is merely terrifying," was funny.
At 3100 lbs race weight, using trap speed HP calculator, the car comes out to about 383 wheel HP.
At 3100 lbs race weight, using trap speed HP calculator, the car comes out to about 383 wheel HP.
03-17-07, 09:27 AM
#39
Constant threat
Being the age I am and having been a big part of that era, where even in my little town of 2000 people we had hemi-Cudas and Challengers, 383 Roadrunners and 440 Super-Bees, slews of big block Chevelles and even a couple of 427 powered Mustangs, along with half a dozen 'Vettes with various engines I can definitely attest to the fact that most of those cars were 13 second cars, tops. High 13s as a matter of fact. Back then if somone claimed he broke into the 12 second range there were immediate calls of "BULLSHIT!" and the need to prove it....lol!
Those of you that haven't had the privilege of being around these cars can never really understand them, I don't think. Those big engines made HUGE torque along with their impressive HP, and those big old heavy cars definitely proved the mass/acceleration theories of physicists true. The really hot cars just never got good traction, as a lot of them were running an 'F' or 'G' tire on a 14" wheel. We are talking 6" or so wide tires. It was nothing to see a really strong car have to back out of the gas and shift up to minimize tire spin. And you would swear to God that every one of them was running at LEAST a 10 second 1/4, just because they were SO impressive. The scream of the engines, the bawl of the tortured tires....it was ******* glorious my friends.
But by today's standard, the cars weren't THAT fast. And if you REALLY want to think about some things, remember those small tires had drum brakes most of the times, and it took several hundred feet to slow to a stop from 120 mph. It seemed like you would NEVER stop!
Those of you that haven't had the privilege of being around these cars can never really understand them, I don't think. Those big engines made HUGE torque along with their impressive HP, and those big old heavy cars definitely proved the mass/acceleration theories of physicists true. The really hot cars just never got good traction, as a lot of them were running an 'F' or 'G' tire on a 14" wheel. We are talking 6" or so wide tires. It was nothing to see a really strong car have to back out of the gas and shift up to minimize tire spin. And you would swear to God that every one of them was running at LEAST a 10 second 1/4, just because they were SO impressive. The scream of the engines, the bawl of the tortured tires....it was ******* glorious my friends.
But by today's standard, the cars weren't THAT fast. And if you REALLY want to think about some things, remember those small tires had drum brakes most of the times, and it took several hundred feet to slow to a stop from 120 mph. It seemed like you would NEVER stop!
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