How to kill a RX7!
11-17-05, 09:36 AM
#76
Wow you know It's sad no matter what I say you just dont get it, like I said I have to restate facts every single time I talk to you.... First of all if you were using any kind of synthetic oil, which is what you described sounds like, the extra additives in the oil dont burn away as well as what is in conventional oil. To avoid this carbon buildup you could order a few quarts of oil from racing beat specifically designed for rotaries, its a good idea whether your cars a DD or not.
I thought you broke an apex seal? maybe I just read wrong. Mazda hires any ASE certified mechanic, it doesnt matter how simplified an engine is. Many people are unfamilier and dont want anything to do with the engine. To become ASE certified you dont even need to know what a rotary engine is... I cant beleive I'm still stating this, Have you ever heard rotary owners who dont work on their own stuff? there always telling each other to be careful what dealership you go to BECAUSE there are people in their that dont have a clue what their doing and will do it half assed. I'm sure mazda has qualified rotary techs now, they redesigned their entire car line-up I HOPE they at least put the money in to create some sort of mandatory training. I stated that many mechanics dont know anything about a rotary, and to be certified all you need to know is how turbo operates, you never even have to touch one, so you throw two odd technologies together, and what do you get? A bunch of cars leaving dealerships with more problems then when they entered. And yes rotaries burn oil, but if you have good seals and proper amounts and type of oil. Then even if the car is a DD you wont have any problems and oil consumtion is barely noticable, I havent put oil in mine for about six months, its burned so little oil as a matter of fact that its not even noticable. I never have trouble with carbon build up. In both of my cars I never put any ATF in them EVER. And BTW I cant believe your a fellow Rx-7 owner and your trashing rotaries.... IF YOU HATE THEM SO MUCH DO A V8 SWAP!!!!!! Your so annoying as a matter of fact I'm about to give you a V8 just so you'll shut up. Yes rotaries are more high maintence than piston engines WOOPTIFREAKINDOO!! You dont like it DONT DRIVE ONE! in ten years my car will still be on the motor it BEEN on for 24 Years!!!! Why?? cause I take care of my ****! If you must continue this Bitchfest go talk to your mom! like I said you dont like it DONT DRIVE IT!!!!!!! I'M DONE.
Well, low revs and low speeds are just fine on a piston engine. Carbon buildup is a result of fuel burn as well as oil burn (rotaries burn oil you know). There is really nothing you can do to prevent it beyond driving the car hard. I purchased it from some guy in his late 30's that was the original owner, it had 50,000 on it at that point. I then drove the living **** out of it for the next few years, still knocked some carbon loose and siezed it.
12-28-05, 01:20 AM
#81
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Originally Posted by 2ndGen.rocket
You're all ******* retards.
Any modern V8 is almost always going to put out a larger amount of reliable horsepower and torque than a boosted rotary. ****, you want to get into reliabilty arguments? How many FD's are running around on original motors right now? How many FD's had blown motors before they hit 50k miles? Yeah, that's what I ******* thought.
Stock for stock I would put the 4.6 or the 5.7 up against any rotary, any day of the week. Give me 20 grand and an LS1, and you can take any rotary you wish plus the same amoutn of cash. I guarantee you that I would be able to build a motor that would blow any rotary out of the ******* water any day of the week, and still be more reliable.
And 351's aren't shitty motors either. I think any FC would be honored to have a bored and balanced 351 from Ford Racing under it's hood. It'd make a much more potent car.
Any modern V8 is almost always going to put out a larger amount of reliable horsepower and torque than a boosted rotary. ****, you want to get into reliabilty arguments? How many FD's are running around on original motors right now? How many FD's had blown motors before they hit 50k miles? Yeah, that's what I ******* thought.
Stock for stock I would put the 4.6 or the 5.7 up against any rotary, any day of the week. Give me 20 grand and an LS1, and you can take any rotary you wish plus the same amoutn of cash. I guarantee you that I would be able to build a motor that would blow any rotary out of the ******* water any day of the week, and still be more reliable.
And 351's aren't shitty motors either. I think any FC would be honored to have a bored and balanced 351 from Ford Racing under it's hood. It'd make a much more potent car.
and a big 
12-28-05, 02:26 AM
#82
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351M suck *** you must be specific on which 351 you are talking about. Now if you wanna get pwnd on reliabilty and **** like that. I bring in a diesel engine. There owned. Maximum reliabilty and power for way less cash than a ls1 if you know what to look for and where to get the parts. **** on 20k i could built a motor that would have 4500 ft lbs of torqe. Dont bother bringing up HP because it dosnt accually exsist it is just a number derived from the torqe.
Now for the rotory. Yes it has its flaws and is a design that has not had as much time to to go through all of the R&D of a 350. now as far as reliabilty. I belive that a rotory can be just as reliable as a piston motor if built and treated right. The reason so many rotories fail is because of driver abuse and not keeping up on the PM (preventive Maintanece) as much as they should. Another fact that you have over looked is that the small 1.3 litler turbo makes more power per cubic inch than a 350. This is coming from a motor of the same year for both cars from the top of the line motors.
this is 1991
Average HP RX-7 Turbo 2 1.3ltr = 210hp
Average HP Camaro With the TPI 350 5.7ltr = 245hp
Now the rotory motor which is 1/4 the size of the 350 make more power cubic inch than the 350. This makes this motor more efficent at creating power than the 350.
Now for the money of getting a motor rebuilt. This is also in the favor of the RX7. The average rebuild cost between $2000 & $2500 this is if you do most of the work yourself.
Now rebuilding the 350 costs a little bit more. Or accually alot more if you do it to factory specs Can cost between on average $3500 and $4500 this is if it is rebuilt to spec as it should be. But can someone tell me why this is. Anyone ill tell you why. Machine work. And having to replace most of the internals. In the FSM chevy has if on piston and bore is out of spec all pistons must be changed and all of the cylinder wall machined to be in spec with each other. Crank out of spec it must be polished and balanced or totaly replaced. It is in all of the machine work that you get caught up in.
Sure some of the same things could happen to a rotory but everything dosnt have to be machined to be put back in spec. Even if you did have to get new rotors and every thing it would still cost less than just having the machine work done on the bottom end of the piston motor. All of these prices are based off of what we do at the machine shop I work at.
Now I am not saying that a rotory is a god send motor it has its flaws, srengths and weeknesses . But so does every other motor on the face of the planet. The main thing is finding the weeknesses and fixing them. the 350 again has had a longer period of time to do this and has went through many different series all improving over the other in some aspect.
Eventually the rotory will make this kind of progression. it all just takes time.
This is all just my $0.02 anywho
Alex Saunders
Now for the rotory. Yes it has its flaws and is a design that has not had as much time to to go through all of the R&D of a 350. now as far as reliabilty. I belive that a rotory can be just as reliable as a piston motor if built and treated right. The reason so many rotories fail is because of driver abuse and not keeping up on the PM (preventive Maintanece) as much as they should. Another fact that you have over looked is that the small 1.3 litler turbo makes more power per cubic inch than a 350. This is coming from a motor of the same year for both cars from the top of the line motors.
this is 1991
Average HP RX-7 Turbo 2 1.3ltr = 210hp
Average HP Camaro With the TPI 350 5.7ltr = 245hp
Now the rotory motor which is 1/4 the size of the 350 make more power cubic inch than the 350. This makes this motor more efficent at creating power than the 350.
Now for the money of getting a motor rebuilt. This is also in the favor of the RX7. The average rebuild cost between $2000 & $2500 this is if you do most of the work yourself.
Now rebuilding the 350 costs a little bit more. Or accually alot more if you do it to factory specs Can cost between on average $3500 and $4500 this is if it is rebuilt to spec as it should be. But can someone tell me why this is. Anyone ill tell you why. Machine work. And having to replace most of the internals. In the FSM chevy has if on piston and bore is out of spec all pistons must be changed and all of the cylinder wall machined to be in spec with each other. Crank out of spec it must be polished and balanced or totaly replaced. It is in all of the machine work that you get caught up in.
Sure some of the same things could happen to a rotory but everything dosnt have to be machined to be put back in spec. Even if you did have to get new rotors and every thing it would still cost less than just having the machine work done on the bottom end of the piston motor. All of these prices are based off of what we do at the machine shop I work at.
Now I am not saying that a rotory is a god send motor it has its flaws, srengths and weeknesses . But so does every other motor on the face of the planet. The main thing is finding the weeknesses and fixing them. the 350 again has had a longer period of time to do this and has went through many different series all improving over the other in some aspect.
Eventually the rotory will make this kind of progression. it all just takes time.
This is all just my $0.02 anywho
Alex Saunders
12-29-05, 03:59 PM
#84
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Originally Posted by LokiRx7.1
LOL! ROTFL! Wow those turbo omnis must be reliable huh!!! Your on your fourth one AMAZING I guess your right about those rotaries..... I mean considering I own an original 1981 me being the original owner and all, and you know what it still hasnt blown up.... huh that must just be me... NOT seeing as how I've worked at mazda dealerships before and I specialize in rotaries BECAUSE I OWN ONE. now on to the task at hand, Considering the fact that I put almost 300 horsepower to the ground in an engine with 140,000 miles on it and its a daily driver must make me exempt. YOU MORON! I am amazed at your stupidity I have worked on more muscle cars than your empty head could comprehend. Do you know how reliable a pontiac 400 is? when making 500 HP? I dont know you tell me. But the damn thing is a paper weight right now, threw a rod...... oh wait rotaries dont have those.... huh, who knew? I have worked on more 350's than I ever hope to see again and you know what? my engine is all Racing Beat aluminum housings.... So I guess that makes it lighter than ANY V8 and if you do the math a V8 would need 400+ HP to create equivilant performance. And do you know something? the old school Chevies were great motors but they wont last 140,000 miles at 400+ HP at the wheels!!! And unless your an idiot or a supremly lucky SOB You havent seen it done either. Even in the LS1's to many moving parts too heavy with the money and effort it takes to do the swap I dont see why any intelligent person just doesnt build the rotary. THE ONLY REASON a rotary blows up is when the dumb soccer mom who popped out four kids drives her husbands car and runs the oil out of it, OR the dumb bitch drives it in the summer and turns the A/C on full blast while in heavy traffic on a 90 degree day and overheats it, warping the rotar housings, Oh and the stupid people that run the living crap out of them all day long and never take care of it!!! The only reason rotaries have a bad name is because it is confined to one make and one model, if you look it up and compare it the blow up rate when in contrast to how many millions of piston engines there are IS ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME. When you confine a specific motor to a specific car everyone heres isolated incidents and blows them out of proportion. Ford 351 Windsor V-8's Were Trash they used poor casting methods and the motors were absolute garbage, Flathead V-8s Prone to burning oil, Buick 3.8's absolute rubbish all they did was take a V-8 and cut off two cylinders, probably the worst motor Buick turned out, Chrysler 318's Underpowered for the cars they were put in, Dodge 2.0 I-4 the rear main seals were cheaply made and prone to failure they leaked oil even after they were replaced. What you dont get is if rotaries were everywhere and the only piston engine was in a camaro everyone would hear how bad 350's are EVEN though they are reliable. I rest my case I'm done, I cant wait to see your Immature Belittling and probably racist and homosexual comments, As I said earlier you are a moron, If I had to geuss your a teenager or someone in their early 20's who has nothing better to do than start talking trash.... and apparently suck dicks........ but anyway I already know you are going to make a comment on how advanced in years you are and I stand ready to shred to pieces any arguement you may have.
kthxbai, ggnr
01-20-06, 10:11 AM
#88
Originally Posted by Eriks85Rx7
12A N/A Rape V8's in reliability
Honestly, if you're not driving a turbo rotary or a car that has incredibly low hp/lb, then its a dog compared to what current LSx swaps are capable of. 3+ rotor cars gain displacement at the expense of weight and mounting position...sadly, you can't V configure rotor housings.
Originally Posted by fcdrifter13
Another fact that you have over looked is that the small 1.3 litler turbo makes more power per cubic inch than a 350. This is coming from a motor of the same year for both cars from the top of the line motors.
Now the rotory motor which is 1/4 the size of the 350 make more power cubic inch than the 350. This makes this motor more efficent at creating power than the 350.
Now the rotory motor which is 1/4 the size of the 350 make more power cubic inch than the 350. This makes this motor more efficent at creating power than the 350.
You're talking about Engine Volume vs Power output or perhaps even Engine Mass vs HP, but unless you have the chassis behind it, the rotary isn't doing anything special. Put both motors on an engine dyno, and look at their power curve to see which would offer the better platform. I'll bet the V8 walks the rotary while not having to work as hard (high rpm peak output HP) to do so.
01-24-06, 03:55 PM
#92
Rotary Enthusiast
hey im all for the demo durby, it gives that rx7 one more life before it goes to the crusher.
as for reiliable boosted motors my dads car (84 merceded benz 300cd turbo deisel) has around 260k miles, and the only thing wrong is the transmission.
and as for motors, it all depends on the owner.
But who cares what motor you have in a 7. Were are all saving them from the crusher, All motors were not created equal. There are many variables on all motors, that change the life of it.
now i beleive i am on both sides of the fence on this one.(or 3rd side...what happened to the other guy) I have 2 351Ws and a 351 C that can easily go into any one of my 1st or 2nd gens. my dad messed with fords since he was a teen, just to be different from the chevy people. Arent we doing the same, we like the rotary just cause its different and really intreging, or they just came with a cool looking car.
now i am a teen, but im not brand bias, every maker has their flaws and awws, we all know that. ie. the pinto and the corviar ( im sure there are enthusiest out there that will have one till the day they die, but aren't we all [enthusiests]?)
the 4 rotor vette was scraped because of the rising cost of fuel, and you could geuss that it wouldn't get good gas milage. And for the other reasons mentioned.
In the end, what you car looks like, runs like, smells like, preforms like, is all up to the owner. People usually reflect into their cars.
as for reiliable boosted motors my dads car (84 merceded benz 300cd turbo deisel) has around 260k miles, and the only thing wrong is the transmission.
and as for motors, it all depends on the owner.
But who cares what motor you have in a 7. Were are all saving them from the crusher, All motors were not created equal. There are many variables on all motors, that change the life of it.
now i beleive i am on both sides of the fence on this one.(or 3rd side...what happened to the other guy) I have 2 351Ws and a 351 C that can easily go into any one of my 1st or 2nd gens. my dad messed with fords since he was a teen, just to be different from the chevy people. Arent we doing the same, we like the rotary just cause its different and really intreging, or they just came with a cool looking car.
now i am a teen, but im not brand bias, every maker has their flaws and awws, we all know that. ie. the pinto and the corviar ( im sure there are enthusiest out there that will have one till the day they die, but aren't we all [enthusiests]?)
the 4 rotor vette was scraped because of the rising cost of fuel, and you could geuss that it wouldn't get good gas milage. And for the other reasons mentioned.
In the end, what you car looks like, runs like, smells like, preforms like, is all up to the owner. People usually reflect into their cars.
Last edited by Gilgamesh; 01-24-06 at 03:59 PM.
01-27-06, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by I'measylikesundaymorning
I'm into racing rx7's like the rest of you guys, but I race them on dirt. Well I actually use them for demolition derby's. Those back ends pack in great once you tuck the tiny *** trunk lid in half and slice the rear frame on the top half. I full tracked a 60's chrysler imperial nose to nose and stood the front up about 2 ft. I placed 2nd with it and took home $500, but I just wanted to share w/ you guys how I kill an rx7 
02-08-06, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by I'measylikesundaymorning
I'm into racing rx7's like the rest of you guys, but I race them on dirt. Well I actually use them for demolition derby's. Those back ends pack in great once you tuck the tiny *** trunk lid in half and slice the rear frame on the top half. I full tracked a 60's chrysler imperial nose to nose and stood the front up about 2 ft. I placed 2nd with it and took home $500, but I just wanted to share w/ you guys how I kill an rx7
No seriously, I want your life to expire! I wish death on you! 
02-09-06, 03:06 AM
#96
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Originally Posted by Shinobi-X
So could a civic, but one trick ponies are no fun. Thing is, if you like to have your cake and eat too, the route of a V8 is by no means a bad one...accelerate the two vehicles from 60mph in their overdrive gear and it will quickly end any argument.
Honestly, if you're not driving a turbo rotary or a car that has incredibly low hp/lb, then its a dog compared to what current LSx swaps are capable of. 3+ rotor cars gain displacement at the expense of weight and mounting position...sadly, you can't V configure rotor housings.
What are the torque numbers? and at what RPM? There is a lot more to a motor than peak hp and high redline... 1.3L is debatable and the HP/L argument really doesn't mean much, when you consider the sacrifice is driveability by comparison. Efficiency is also a broad topic- if you want to talk about amount of fuel burned in order to make power, relative to its size, then the rotary is absolutely terrible at efficiency.
You're talking about Engine Volume vs Power output or perhaps even Engine Mass vs HP, but unless you have the chassis behind it, the rotary isn't doing anything special. Put both motors on an engine dyno, and look at their power curve to see which would offer the better platform. I'll bet the V8 walks the rotary while not having to work as hard (high rpm peak output HP) to do so.
Honestly, if you're not driving a turbo rotary or a car that has incredibly low hp/lb, then its a dog compared to what current LSx swaps are capable of. 3+ rotor cars gain displacement at the expense of weight and mounting position...sadly, you can't V configure rotor housings.
What are the torque numbers? and at what RPM? There is a lot more to a motor than peak hp and high redline... 1.3L is debatable and the HP/L argument really doesn't mean much, when you consider the sacrifice is driveability by comparison. Efficiency is also a broad topic- if you want to talk about amount of fuel burned in order to make power, relative to its size, then the rotary is absolutely terrible at efficiency.
You're talking about Engine Volume vs Power output or perhaps even Engine Mass vs HP, but unless you have the chassis behind it, the rotary isn't doing anything special. Put both motors on an engine dyno, and look at their power curve to see which would offer the better platform. I'll bet the V8 walks the rotary while not having to work as hard (high rpm peak output HP) to do so.
Yeah i kinda knew all that...but everybody on here is basically talking about peak HP. If I could have a motor it would be a 460. Big motor gobs of tourqe not very expensive and just sound nice.
Now I know what your talking about on the dyno. The v8 does have a more please curve to it.
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