Valkyrie

Sooo... Does anyone have any tips for steering control?

I've got the whole seat position thing down fairly well (close enough to use the shifter, and be able to push the pedals in while still having a bend in the knee, while also still having a bend in the arm when you grab the top of the steering wheel), but I still can't turn the wheel more than 90% either way without moving my hands (is that normal?...).

Any tips for making up for that, or what's the best way to pass the wheel when you're going for maximum steering angle, if there is one?...

Or should I just move my hands before the turn?

(and when I mean it won't go further than 90 degrees, I mean without removing one of the hands... I can do 180 by letting one hand go)

Turbo23

iTrader: (4)

pratice, pratice, pratice. Its all about it, and you need to find a comfortable position

sneakyasian

why don't you flick the wheel? and let go and then catch it when you've reached the right angle? I love the flick... you can catch it with your knees too then modulate with the throttle... (I'm talking about drifting... I couldn't tell if you were doing grip or not. for grip... try a hand to hand shuffle type thing. one on one off one on one off one on one off.... ? I don't know I'm goin to bed.

NeoTuri

iTrader: (2)

Don't ever try that without power steering. A fellow autocrosser broke his finger like that. I used to do this but found a better way to spin the wheel.

The best input is the smoothest. I prepare for a turn by repositioning my hands before I enter it. That way, the mininum angle is slightly less than going straight (so I am able to counter-steer) and the maximum angle is just before before my arms cross over. I realize that this isn't 0% to 100% but you will likely never use all of it in a RWD car anyway.

Depending on the speed you enter a turn, you may not have to add as much steering input as you think. I found that jerking the wheel does not increase steering response, but instead reduces grip. If it turns out that you want more rotation, you can use some throttle steer OR enter at a higher speed and trail brake. This requires some practice.

I'm by no means an expert yet and you may find something that works better for you, but this is what yields me faster times around the course.

DamonB

For track driving I never move my hands from 9 and 3 on the wheel (except to shift of course). For autox and it's much larger steering angles I use the shuffle technique, positioning my hands ahead of time for long sweeping turns so my arms are not so crossed. Once you begin turning the car in you don't want to be moving your hands around on the wheel, you want them in place feeling the front tires. If the car tries to get away any big correction is going to be opening the wheel back up, not winding more in. Because of this don't be concerned about how far your arms are wound up. An "emergency" will unwind them, not wind them further.

With your hands at 9 and 3 you should be able to turn the wheel 180 degrees (actually slightly more) either direction without removing them. You need to be close to the wheel so that your elbows are bent nearly 90* when you grasp the wheel at 9 and 3. If you're too far away you can still turn the wheel but you can't do so as quickly, it takes more strength and you don't notice small feedbacks as easily. Few people sit close enough to the wheel. Look closely at pics of rally and sedan drivers belted into their cars and notice how bent their elbows are.

Valkyrie

Yeah... but of course, if I get too close to the stock wheel, my legs get jammed into it, since it's a stock non-tilt wheel without a spacer...

I'm hoping a Momo wheel and the proper spacer will bring the wheel up and closer to me, so I have more leg room (my right hand always gets caught up in my leg if I turn right).

There's no way in hell I could turn the wheel 180 degrees with both hands at 9 and 3... I'd have to dislocate my wrist on the opposite side, since when I turn left with my right hand, or the other way around, it works fine, but for example, my left wrist won't twist far enough to go 180 with hands locked to the wheel (unless I slide it down the wheel, or let go, of course).

Valkyrie

For the hell of it, I adjusted my brake pedal height (as well as the clutch height, and the throttle freeplay) to give myself another half-inch or so of leg room (since in the proper seat position, with my leg on the brake pedal, it's bent quite a bit)... That way I might be able to turn right a bit easier...

It was a bit high anyway :p

Black91n/a

One of the instructors I had at a track day suggested that when doing large steering inputs to let go of the wheel with the "bottom" hand, but keep it on the wheel (sliding the hand along the rim), so that you're still steering with the "top" hand, but the "bottom" one's not causing any restriction in truning ability, and so that your arms don't get all crossed. Then when you're unwinding the steering, grip the wheel again with the "bottom" hand when it gets back to it's natural position on the wheel.

sneakyasian

[QUOTE=NeoTuri]Don't ever try that without power steering. A fellow autocrosser broke his finger like that.

well you slide on the outside of the wheel. you don't grab with a full fist. but if you're not used to it I can see someone breaking a finger. just get some practice. I never had any problems w/o my ps. I actually found it to be easier to control w/o ps.

[QUOTE=Black91n/a]For autox and it's much larger steering angles I use the shuffle technique,

this is what I was talking about before... where you basically hand the wheel to the other hand. it's very usefull for grip and drift.

the biggest key is to be smooth. no jerking or sudden movements. every input must smooth...

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

The most important thing you should be concerned with is sensing traction. Sitting close to the wheel allows your arms to be bent with elbows close to your side. This is similar to the posture you would assume if determining how much something would weigh. That's also the same posture I strive for when driving.

I lift the wheel (gently hehe) I don't pull it. If I'm making a right hand turn I preset placing my left hand low and my right hand high once at the apex my right hand is low and my left hand is high. I want my left hand low to feel the traction when entering and I want my right hand low to correct (opening quickly) once the power is on.

If I'm steering with my upper hand I'm using my larger muscles in a fatigued position neither of which are good.

I like my hands atleast 8 and 4 not 9 and 3 or worse 10 and 2. Some people say if they preset or shuffle steer they might forget were straight ahead is. I say **** worrying about where the wheel says straight ahead is and use your vision and react accordingly.

For very fast corrections letting go of the wheel is fine especially if you don't have power steering because sometimes it's difficult to open the wheel fast enough just keep your hands on the outside and get ready for some serious over correction correction

I subscribe to CPR. Correct, Pause (see how the car reacts to your input), re-evaluate and start again. Hopefully you'll have enough space for a 2nd or 3rd attempt but never stop driving

DamonB

I have a stock wheel with stock seats. I'm over 6'4" tall. When racing I have the seat two clicks forward from the rear stops and the seatback as upright as it will go. My knees are splayed out to fit around the wheel but this gets my arms into proper position. If I can do it you can do it

I think that is not emphasized enough. People always think "steering" and not "feedback". The steering wheel doesn't just make the car change direction, it allows you to feel what the front tires are doing. Also don't strangle the wheel, only grip it tightly enough to maintain control and key in on what the wheel is doing while in your hands.

My feelings exactly and is one reason why I don't care for most "track day" instruction. They tend to teach you to steer the car around a track rather than teach you how to DRIVE and REACT to the car and the track. I haven't had to look down at the steering wheel in my life. Your eyes looking out ahead, your hands on the wheel and your *** in the seat tell you everything there is to know.

Valkyrie

Well, if I could go back any further (or move the brake pedal any more towards the floor), I would, but the problem I have to get fairly close so I can push the clutch pedal all the way in and still have the proper bend in the legs

And of course, having a sunroof means I can only lean the seat in so far when I'm this close, so I can't just compensate for being further out by leaning in (lack of headroom).

I think I've got a bit more room to steer now, so long as my foot is on the gas and not the brake pedal. At least when I'm wearing water shoes or are barefoot

I've gotten proficient at heel-and-toe, too, at least at normal driving speeds (although technically you shouldn't have to use much less throttle than you would on a track, since the difference between gears doesn't change just because you're at higher revs)

A new steering wheel with a spacer and lowered seats would help alot, though.

legokcen

iTrader: (8)

You should learn to shuffle steer. It'll make things easier.

Valkyrie

Well, I don't have any problems with steering any more...

I can already shuffle steer, although on the street, just grabbing the bottom of the wheel makes steering tight turns much easier (and no less smooth).

SoontobeLS1'd

I've been practicing the shuffle steer a lot more. I'm still a little lost on when to use the heel-toe. I go up into the mountains and hone my skills a bit with finding lines, steering technique, foot-braking vs. engine-braking, and looking far enough ahead. The damn heel-toe. I know it is a simple motion. But I can't seem to put it in the right place. Practice practice.

Node

iTrader: (1)

I could heal toe like a monster in my FB, but in my FC its like a totally foreign thing to me. I can pull it off, but its very thought/effot intensive. I don't remember if it was the spacing (side to side) between the gas/brake or the distance (from floor to you) between the gas/brake that made the biggy. I think it was the distance but havent driven my fc in a year and my fb in 2!!!!

I like the shuffle steer, and glad to see that my "dorky" seating position is better than most peoples gangster leans. Glad to see that its my natural seating position so I'm at least one step closer to better driving, well maybe not. haha

I always sit nearly upright and like to still have a slight bend in my knee when the clutch is fully depressed.

One day I'll get on a track and get some real instruction.....
-Ben Martin

Black91n/a

The problem is at the track many people (including me) don't really have a choice and have to adopt the "gangsta lean" driving position to get their helmeted head in the car, then I have to sit really close to be able to steer properly which makes it cramped in the leg department. I'll be getting a Momo racing wheel and quick release to fix that problem, as it'll be closer to me, allowing me to sit a little further away and be less cramped.

Valkyrie

I suggest the Model 78... since suede is probably less slippery when your hands aren't sweaty, and the thumb rests are in the proper racing position (unlike 90% of Momo wheels).

Also, wouldn't it be just lovely if the FC had a tighter ratio steering rack available? Apparently some BMW tuners have kits that'll make them go from over 4 turns lock-to-lock to less as low as 2.7... Although I'd imagine that would quite a bit more strain on the idle and the power steering. The kits cost between 500 to 650 dollars depending on how low the ratio is.

As it is, the RPM-sensing rack takes about 180 degrees of steering angle to do a typical 90-degree turn on the street. And the less you have to move your hands to turn, the easier it is to do things like counter-steer, or steer through a switchback (which would normally take several turns of the wheel). Sure you can put spacers on the tie rods and get extra steering angle but it doesn't mean a whole lot when you have to turn the wheel almost 2 times to get there.