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who is running without abs ?

Old 02-23-03, 10:45 AM
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who is running without abs ?

I want to remove abs unit and install an adjustable balance valve. I have done the search with no results. any links on a how too? Or advice from someone who has done it. All the( i would not do that people) please dont respond to this thread.
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Old 02-23-03, 06:57 PM
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Best way to do it would be to find the lines from a non-ABS car and start there. That way you can eliminate the pump and what not to save weight. I'd guess you could just unplug the sensors and force it into non-ABS mose though? Don't know but you might want to research whether you'll want the non-ABS MC too.

As far as the bias valve what I did was to use custom braided line from the MC back to the T at the rear end. Had two lines made with the proper fitting on each end and placed the valve in between the two lines where I wanted it in the car. Braided line is the "proper" way to do it because it does expand more under pressure than solid line will but I've noticed no ill effects. And this way was much easier. No flaring. If you're handy you can cut the line running to the rear and use some fittings and flares to splice in enough line to put the valve anywhere you want.

Chris
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Old 02-24-03, 05:51 AM
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I forgot to say this is the fd 3rd gen I belive they all had abs. I was thinking of mounting the preportioning valve on the firewall instead of interior for less of a hassle and once adjusted should be good. Thanks for bringing up the MC i did not think that would be an issue. anyone have knowledge on the mc? I know you cannot run abs with wheels larger than 16" and cannot belive more people have not done this.
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Old 02-24-03, 12:58 PM
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Why can't you run abs on wheels larger than 16"?
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Old 02-24-03, 03:23 PM
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who said you can't run ABS with larger wheels?

You can put the prop valve in if you have a single line to the rear brakes from the master cylinder to the ABS unit. Don't know the FD's brake setup, but if you have that, then you can add a valve without too much difficulty.

Why are you installing this stuff? Prop valve is really only going to be useful for adjusting bias, and with the ABS, it's a moot point, if the rear brakes lock up, abs kicks in. I'd only add the valve if you were running non-abs brakes.

All IMHO.

PaulC

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Old 02-24-03, 04:25 PM
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ABS has a tendancy to not interact well with sticky tires and aggressive brake pads. MY Contour SVT would go into ABS mode without actually locking a wheel when braking aggressively. Don't know what the Mazda hardware/software is capable of but if I were building a track car I'd ditch the ABS.

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Old 02-24-03, 07:37 PM
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Abs computer is set up for 16" wheels. If you move up to 17",or 18" wheels it still thinks and reacts to 16" wheel setup. Do a search ABS..
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Old 02-24-03, 08:08 PM
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The outside diameter of the tires will not change. The size of the wheels MAY affect the weight and inertia of the wheel.
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Old 02-24-03, 08:35 PM
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ture, if you get the proper plus size wheels, where diameter or outer circumfrence is the same (or very close), the ABS should function similiarly.
I can see if the new tires are more sticky or the brake system has been modified might effect the way the ABS locks/unlocks, but using right up-sized wheel should not be a problem
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Old 02-24-03, 10:51 PM
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Agreed on ditching the ABS, although my experience has been with my Pontiac and it's ABS was pretty good, IMHO.

PaulC
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Old 02-25-03, 04:45 AM
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ABS works fine with my 18" wheels and 285/30-18 R-compound tires. Whoever told you it doesn't work with larger wheels was feeding you BS. You can run into trouble if the outer diameter of the wheels are significantly different from front to rear, but you would likely have major rubbing problems if you go that far.

The ABS on the FD doesn't really get in the way much. It doesn't kick in prematurely. And if you do lock a tire, it can save you from flat-spotting the tire.

If you do want to get rid of it, it should be easy enough. Remove the unit and install lines and tees in its place. There is a stock proportioning valve that you could keep or remove and replace with an adjustable unit. The stock master cylinder will be fine.

-Max

Last edited by maxcooper; 02-25-03 at 04:50 AM.
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Old 02-25-03, 10:16 AM
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Thanks Max,that tells me what i need to know. I found that info on the abs computer & larger wheels in a post in the archives.I will try and find it and put it up. I was going to take the ABS out because the one i have has fire damage. the unit looks fine but the wires and plastic control box are toasty and i did not think mazda would sell me just the plastic control box. Guess i will start looking for a used one. This car is an automatic and will be a daily driver and is not my auto x car so i would like to keep the abs if possible.

Lo
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Old 02-25-03, 01:16 PM
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You mean like this...
http://www.bradbarber.com/killerbee/...rcylinders.jpg
http://www.bradbarber.com/killerbee/...Benginebay.jpg

Mazda's stock ABS unit is very troublesome. They made 3 in-line parts changes in two and a half years for some reason. I think the ABS pumps were problematic. Many of us track folk could NEVER get a firm brake pedal after upgrading our calipers. As soon as the ABS pump was removed... Bingo.

This only took about two years and a few thousand dollars to figure out, but it was worth it.

As for track driving without ABS, it is fun and you have to stay on top of your braking. Personally, I think it makes me a better driver having to threshold brake.
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Old 02-26-03, 05:46 PM
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Ok Bradrx7 , I'll bite what are we looking at tilton ,wildwood ,or something more exotic ?
Looks good !!!
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Old 02-26-03, 08:05 PM
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Worked with Essex Racing to get this setup balanced properly along with a couple of other track guys. It took a couple of years as I mentioned and a LOT of trial and error.
Those are AP master cylinders (.70 F and .625 R bore) in a very rare cage produced by Mark Valskis of Brembo that mates to the stock brake pedal and clevis. The 3rd reservoir if for the clutch MC (stock is shared with the brakes on a 3rd gen). The MCs are sized to mate with Porsche Big Red calipers in front (with a 324mm x 32mm rotor) and a Wilwood Billet NDL in the rear. Had David Breslau of WideFoot Racing fabricate the rear brackets to mount the caliper and use a 99 rear rotor (313mm x 21mm rotor). The fit required removal of material on the rear upright and the caliper, but it works.

The best part is I now have brakles with a HARD pedal that stop the car very well. On a 3rd gen, you cannot replace the front brakes only, the F/R balance is thrown off. Increasing the piston diameter on the rear is REQUIRED in concert with the front increase. Front big brake sellers either do not know this or don't care. You are wasting your time if you do not upgrade the entire system.

We learned the hard way.
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