Where to buy a Surge tank
#1
Mad Man
Thread Starter
Where to buy a Surge tank
They are a dime a dozen in Japan, and Austraila, but in the US, I cannot find one for a reasonable price. Do to time constraints, I would like to buy one ready made. I could certainly make one, but do not want to wait the two weeks to get the materials, and get it fabricated. In AU, and japan they can be had fro 75-100.00 US, here, the few companies selling them, are asking around twice that. If the can has AN fittings, the lower fitting needs to be a -10, and the balance, -8 fittings. Alternately, they could all be 1/2" FPT. Here is what I am talking about.
http://www.capa.com.au/pics/capa_fue..._aluminium.jpg
Thanks, Carl 707-696-2705
http://www.capa.com.au/pics/capa_fue..._aluminium.jpg
Thanks, Carl 707-696-2705
#2
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Just looked at Racer Parts Wholesale, and they carry a surge tank from Fuel Safe for $119 - it's at least similar to what your're showing, but is square, and has either -6 or -8 fittings: Part number ST100=6 or ST100-8. http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/
Looks like pegasus auto racing has the same items for $115: Part numbers 2538-6AN or 2538-8AN. http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/Pro...p?Product=2538
Good luck.
Looks like pegasus auto racing has the same items for $115: Part numbers 2538-6AN or 2538-8AN. http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/Pro...p?Product=2538
Good luck.
#3
Mad Man
Thread Starter
Thanks but those are internal. The one pictured in the above link is external, allowing the addition of a second pump mounted externaly. The advantage is(over the internal) that you can run extremely high fuel pressures using your existing intank pump, and adding this externally. In addition, my application requires ~500hp worth of fuel to a road race car, at something like 70psi. This is very difficult without using two internal pumps, but then you still have not addressed scavenging. Anyway, thanks. Carl
#4
www.lms-efi.com
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When I had my radiator built I had the same guy put a surge tank together for me. All custom, built to my design. Arrived on my door step less than a week after I emailed them the drawing. Price was $100. http://www.alumrad.com/
#5
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Hello Carl,
rotary extreme used to carry this tank with 1 or 2 inline fuel pumps. I don't see it in their new website however. www.rotaryextreme.com, call him and see if he still has it.
rotary extreme used to carry this tank with 1 or 2 inline fuel pumps. I don't see it in their new website however. www.rotaryextreme.com, call him and see if he still has it.
#6
Losing Traction on 335s
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I would definitely have one welded together if you are not handy with a MIG welder. A metal supermarket-type store will have whatever metal you want to use (Al/SS/Mild Steel) and you can get the -AN fittings from Summit. It'll be cheaper this way and you can get the exact dimensions that you need.
I had a local shop weld up my old aluminum setup, this time around I'm going to do it myself with my MIG and stainless.
A note on the setup so everyone knows how it works- the in-tank or external pump feeding the surge tank will end up seeing zero/very low pressure when it pumps gas from the fuel tank to the surge tank (there is no regulator involved). Because of this, whatever in-tank pump you are using will pump out a bit more than it is rated at 40 or 50 psi. The other option is to use pump meant for a carb setup- they are high volume/lower pressure pumps- I use a Holley Red carb fuel pump ($50 or less on eBay, pumps around 100 gph) to feed my surge tank, then a single Walbro to my engine. The high pressure Walbro pumps should be good for 550hp based on the flow charts I've looked at. The setup won't allow you to get any additional fuel pressure, it'll just ensure a constant supply of fuel to the high pressure fuel pump in all conditions.
Finally- a note on sizing- to figure out what size is necessary for the surge tank(s), look at the flow rate for your high pressure pump. If it flows 60 gph, then a half gallon surge tank will last for 30 seconds without getting any gas from the main tank.
Also, a note on low pressure pump sizing- be sure that your low pressure pump flows a bit more than your high pressure pump(s) or else the high pressure pumps will drain the surge tank before the low pressure feed can refill it.
For anyone thinking of tracking their car, these setups are the best insurance against fuel starvation.
Ben
I had a local shop weld up my old aluminum setup, this time around I'm going to do it myself with my MIG and stainless.
A note on the setup so everyone knows how it works- the in-tank or external pump feeding the surge tank will end up seeing zero/very low pressure when it pumps gas from the fuel tank to the surge tank (there is no regulator involved). Because of this, whatever in-tank pump you are using will pump out a bit more than it is rated at 40 or 50 psi. The other option is to use pump meant for a carb setup- they are high volume/lower pressure pumps- I use a Holley Red carb fuel pump ($50 or less on eBay, pumps around 100 gph) to feed my surge tank, then a single Walbro to my engine. The high pressure Walbro pumps should be good for 550hp based on the flow charts I've looked at. The setup won't allow you to get any additional fuel pressure, it'll just ensure a constant supply of fuel to the high pressure fuel pump in all conditions.
Finally- a note on sizing- to figure out what size is necessary for the surge tank(s), look at the flow rate for your high pressure pump. If it flows 60 gph, then a half gallon surge tank will last for 30 seconds without getting any gas from the main tank.
Also, a note on low pressure pump sizing- be sure that your low pressure pump flows a bit more than your high pressure pump(s) or else the high pressure pumps will drain the surge tank before the low pressure feed can refill it.
For anyone thinking of tracking their car, these setups are the best insurance against fuel starvation.
Ben
#7
Mad Man
Thread Starter
Bens got it, but one note when sizing the pumps. The rating on the in tank pump is its max flow at ~0 pressure, ie a Walbro 255lph pump would be rated at 255lph, that gets compared to the "at pressure" rating of the large pump(say 70 psi on a turbo application). So, you can see nearly any existing in tank pump will be able to keep up with nearly any external pump. In my case, I am using a Bosch motorsports "028" in tank pump, and an Aeromotive A1000 external pump. This combo should easily support 600hp. So actually even a stock internal pump should be able to keep up with a very large external pump. Carl
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#8
Rotary Freak
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A "hot wired" (14.4 volts vs. stock 12.2 volts) single Walbro 340 (255lph hi pressure) intank pump using 12 guage wire and a relay off the alternator can safely support 600hp as tested by Precision Turbo & Engine using stock Buick GN fuel lines (3/8" with many kinks).
Scroll down and check out the 7 links above "Diagnosis."
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/fuel.../fuelpage.html
Walbro flow rates:
http://home.pacbell.net/sfnelson/wal...307_340-2.html
I've heard the Aeromotive pump life can be measured in hours.... plus they aren't rebuildable like a Weldon ($$$).
-Mark
Scroll down and check out the 7 links above "Diagnosis."
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/fuel.../fuelpage.html
Walbro flow rates:
http://home.pacbell.net/sfnelson/wal...307_340-2.html
I've heard the Aeromotive pump life can be measured in hours.... plus they aren't rebuildable like a Weldon ($$$).
-Mark
#9
Originally Posted by Carl Byck
Bens got it, but one note when sizing the pumps. The rating on the in tank pump is its max flow at ~0 pressure, ie a Walbro 255lph pump would be rated at 255lph, that gets compared to the "at pressure" rating of the large pump(say 70 psi on a turbo application). So, you can see nearly any existing in tank pump will be able to keep up with nearly any external pump. In my case, I am using a Bosch motorsports "028" in tank pump, and an Aeromotive A1000 external pump. This combo should easily support 600hp. So actually even a stock internal pump should be able to keep up with a very large external pump. Carl
#10
Losing Traction on 335s
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I definitely agree that Walbro's can push 600hp (it's a fact, how could I disagree??)- even better graphs (and a great place to buy from) are here:
http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/
Also- no need to grab unfiltered power off the alternator- put a voltmeter on the battery terminals while the car is running and you'll see what I mean.
Ben
http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/
Also- no need to grab unfiltered power off the alternator- put a voltmeter on the battery terminals while the car is running and you'll see what I mean.
Ben
#11
Mad Man
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by gnx7
A "hot wired" (14.4 volts vs. stock 12.2 volts) single Walbro 340 (255lph hi pressure) intank pump using 12 guage wire and a relay off the alternator can safely support 600hp as tested by Precision Turbo & Engine using stock Buick GN fuel lines (3/8" with many kinks).
Scroll down and check out the 7 links above "Diagnosis."
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/fuel.../fuelpage.html
Walbro flow rates:
http://home.pacbell.net/sfnelson/wal...307_340-2.html
I've heard the Aeromotive pump life can be measured in hours.... plus they aren't rebuildable like a Weldon ($$$).
-Mark
Scroll down and check out the 7 links above "Diagnosis."
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/fuel.../fuelpage.html
Walbro flow rates:
http://home.pacbell.net/sfnelson/wal...307_340-2.html
I've heard the Aeromotive pump life can be measured in hours.... plus they aren't rebuildable like a Weldon ($$$).
-Mark
BTW, bring over one of those 335 hoosiers sometime, and we'll see if it'll fit under my FC.
Last edited by Carl Byck; 11-11-04 at 07:15 PM.
#13
mythical Unicorn
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Surge Tank
Originally Posted by Carl Byck
They are a dime a dozen in Japan, and Austraila, but in the US, I cannot find one for a reasonable price. Do to time constraints, I would like to buy one ready made. I could certainly make one, but do not want to wait the two weeks to get the materials, and get it fabricated. In AU, and japan they can be had fro 75-100.00 US, here, the few companies selling them, are asking around twice that. If the can has AN fittings, the lower fitting needs to be a -10, and the balance, -8 fittings. Alternately, they could all be 1/2" FPT. Here is what I am talking about.
http://www.capa.com.au/pics/capa_fue..._aluminium.jpg
Thanks, Carl 707-696-2705
http://www.capa.com.au/pics/capa_fue..._aluminium.jpg
Thanks, Carl 707-696-2705
Allan
#14
Mad Man
Thread Starter
Thing is Chuck wants 250.00 for it, the can pictured above is 125.00. I just did not want to wait for it from AU. Of course I would have had it by now if I had ordered when I started this. I have found blanks for cheap, I think I am going to make several of them up. They will also feature an internal baffle of sorts, so you can run it down to the last ounce of fuel. Carl
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