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ultimate touring tire?

Old 02-18-03, 02:31 PM
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ultimate touring tire?

Although planning on running in Unlimited for this year's Open Track Challenge we've been forced into Touring by the entering of a certain 328... My question to you all, what is the stickiest tire that will work for road racing duty and still has a treadwear rating of at least 140? I usually run a 225/50-16 race tire but have been told that Azenis are so good that a 215 Azeni will be faster than any other 225 tire. Any one have any experience with high performance street tires?
-Matt
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Old 02-27-03, 07:21 PM
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Sorry Matt, I run R compounds.. I know the auto-x guys in STS swear by the Falken Azenzis, but I don't know how well they'll hold up under track temps..

Good luck at OTC though!

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Old 02-27-03, 07:56 PM
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Matt
I would suggest also
Toyo T1S - New Spec. tire for Speedvision World Cup Touring cars
Yokohama AVS Sport
Yokohama AVS Es100 - an improved AVS Int. replacement.

Also Check the latest Sport Compact Car - They tested 10 R compound Tires but I dont think any of them have a 140+ Threadware Rating.

Last edited by maxpesce; 02-27-03 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 02-28-03, 12:49 PM
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I have run some time trials/lap sessions with guys running the Falken Azenis. They seem to hold up fine for 20 minute hot laps on a relatively short course (1.9 miles). I can't say for an enduro race though. The Azenis are incredible street tires ... at temp in auto-x, the STS guys who ran the Azenis were only 1-2 seconds off the top times. That's pretty amazing for a street tire, in my book. The only downside to them is, as you know, the restriction in available tire sizes.

The Toyo T1S's are another great tire. I am extremely impressed with the grip level it has. I'd argue that it has better grip than the Bridgestone S03's. I've read some complaints about the Yoko ES100's not lasting very long. I'm noticing a similar trend in my AVSi's. The BFG KDW's were good for my purposes ... fairly good dry and wet traction; but they wore down a little earlier than I expected. My bang-for-the-buck recommendation is the Sumitomo HTR-ZII's. Pretty good grip for a street tire and outstanding wet traction. Good tread life, from what I've seen. Helps that they come in 11/32 tread .... tallest that I know of.
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Old 02-28-03, 02:51 PM
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Well, the OTC format is all about sprint runs so endurance is not so much of an issue. At their price point we can afford to buy 3 sets of Azenis, shave them, and burn through them in the week... The ultimate question is, will Azenis in 215 be faster than Toyo T1S's in a 225 width? Hmm, maybe we'll have to buy a set of each and do some testing.
-Matt
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Old 03-01-03, 06:41 AM
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here's my opinion:

1st place: BF Goodrich K/D
2nd place: Bridgestone Potenza S-03
3rd place: Michelin Pilot Sport
4th place: Perelli P Zero
last place: Toyo T1-S (some guy tried using them on the track and said they turned into melted cheese) btw, I'm sure since they're a race series' official tire, it's because of their superior performance,and probably has nothing to do with the fact that they're giving the series lots of $$$. I'm sure it's just a coicidence...

I will say that they do in fact have the best hydro resistance however:
hydro resistance = less meat exposed to road = more heat transfer per area and less energy transfer overall. Just take a look at that damn tread design!
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Old 03-01-03, 10:06 AM
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Wow, you'd rate all those tires above the Azenis? Going by whats winning in the Solo II street classes it seems as though they are usually good for a fair amount of time over any other tire... As for the T1s, those are the same concerns I had and why I never really considered them until redrotor mentioned them.
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Old 03-01-03, 02:37 PM
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Keep in mind OTC is a high speed track event. Solo II autocross results with UHP (ultra high performance ) tires may yield dramatically different results at an open track event.

I have experience with the following in 225/50ZR16: Bridgestone Expedia S-07, RE71; Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetrico; Kumho Ecsta 711s; and with Yokohama AVS Intermediates in 255/40-17s.

In 225/50-16, the Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetricos were the best in the dry, and decent in wet conditions. Kumho Ecsta 711s were terrible for grip driving, but highly recommended for drift driving.

The 255/40-17 Yokohama AVS I's are surprisingly excellent track tires, a shame they're sold out @ Tire Rack.

Obviously none of these tires will compare with Hoosier R3S03 or Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Comps.

Manny Lozano
Motorsports Driving Club (MDC)
Speed Sauce Racing 1993 Mazda Rx7 R1
http://www.opentracking.com/emmanuel_lozano,_93_rx7.htm

Last edited by SleepR1; 03-01-03 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 03-01-03, 08:32 PM
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wow, I thought the S-03's gripped better than the Pirelli...there only disadvantage is there weight.

The info that I was posting was obtained from tirerack.com in a test they did between the potenza, the pzero, and the pilot sport in an M3. I've heard many various reports however regarding the BF Goodrich T/A KD's (not K/A as I previously typed :P)being the best. Tirerack.com even ranks them a couple points higher on the traction scale than the Yokohoma advans...allthough that's just a scale, not a test like they did with the above three tires.

Also, a lot of the tires you mentioned above are indeed Ultra High Performance tires which are one grade lower than "maximum performance" tires such as the S-03's, S-02's, Pilot sports, and the T/A KD's
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Old 03-01-03, 08:53 PM
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"Max Performance" is Tire Rack's special sub catagory of Ultra High Performance. Ultra High Performance is as high as you can get, so saying that the other Non max peformance tires aren't as good is not really correct. The tires in max performance category, is Tire Rack's opinion, not everyone else's. Tire Rack sets up 30-second autcross courses. Not much time on the track to really get a tire warmed up.
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Old 03-02-03, 11:52 AM
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The only problem with the BFG KD's is that you're restricted in sizes (not for 88GTU's case, but in general) ... kinda of like the Falken Azenis. And they're freakin' expensive.

I'll vouch for the AVSi's being a decent track tire. They have treated me well in my time trials. As far as street tire performance between auto-x and track, I haven't really noticed a big difference between events. Since the tires heat up faster on track, I was able to get more nasty with them as opposed to waiting for your final runs in auto-x.

I watched the World Challenge GT series last year, and it looks like the T1S's hold up fine under track conditions. The T1S's are also the lightest of the barrage of tires that we've mentioned thus far. So, hence why I'm on their bandwagon .... lightweight, grippy, and good wet traction. Expensive too.
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Old 03-02-03, 04:52 PM
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I will whole heartedly vouch for the G/force Kd's. I have them in a 205/50/15 and they are fantastic!!!! Have a tread rating of 200 and have excelent traction for both auto-x and road raciong.
I did my first track day yesterday, and have to say that I have fallen even moe in love with these tires!!
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Old 03-04-03, 12:33 AM
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I wonder why that guy melted them to cheese then...I just read that and was totally appauled.

EDIT: Btw SleepR1, I've also seen that maximum performance category other places too, but maybe because it was sponosored by tirerack or something...
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