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spun out...blame setup?

Old 09-06-03, 10:04 PM
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spun out...blame setup?

so i went to my first "high performance driving event" today...had fun...but spun out twice. i know it was my fault for going faster than i should have and probably letting off the throttle instead of accelerating thru...but i'm wondering if my setup contibuted to my FD being very tail happy and spinning out. if so maybe can you suggest something to help...

current setup...17x9 all around. tein ha coilovers. have avs intermediate 255s. do you think a stagger setup would be better? i know that learning to drive better is the key..but just curious if the setup might be contributing.

thanks.
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Old 09-06-03, 10:13 PM
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Your setup sounds like it should maintain the neutral handling of the stock set-up, depending on how you have the stiffness of the coil-overs adjusted.

I would guess that you just experienced what trail-braking or power oversteer can do...

What event did you go to?
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Old 09-06-03, 11:47 PM
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went to NASA HPDE at thunderhill

http://1.3-liter-turbo.com/fun/fd/th...ill-9-6-03.jsp

actually kinda glad i spun out....now i know what it feels like, without having to worry about hitting a curb or another car :-)
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Old 09-06-03, 11:49 PM
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before i had the stock wheels and some s-02 tires...it felt stickier....i felt more confident thru the turns (just on regular street trurns). after the change to the current setup i feel that the rear has gotten looser....maybe the s-02 are just stickier?
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Old 09-07-03, 06:17 AM
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learn to control slides first before going on a tight track.

drift before grip

Last edited by skunks; 09-07-03 at 06:24 AM.
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Old 09-07-03, 08:18 AM
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Back in the days before the Internet there were things called books...........

Just kidding, I would suggest you go pick up 2 types of books. The first is a performance driving book and then a vehicle suspension dynamics book. A good book to get when you are ready for the second is "How to make your car handle" by Fred Punn. Everyone's driving styles are different, once you have read a driving book you will understand how cars handle and get around race tracks. Then you can take your knowledge one step further with suspension dynamics and make the car do what you want it to do.


-billy
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Old 09-07-03, 11:25 AM
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books? what are books? there's the forum and there's google. hahaha
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Old 09-08-03, 06:57 AM
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A good (arguably the best) driving book is the one right from Skip Barber. I have a copy and it's excellent.

http://store.yahoo.com/sbi-2000/goingfaster.html
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Old 09-08-03, 08:40 AM
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Re: spun out...blame setup?

Originally posted by ttb

current setup...17x9 all around. tein ha coilovers. have avs intermediate 255s.
Not to sound rude, but that's not a setup. That's stuff you have on the car. Setup would be alignment, tire pressures, spring rates etc. That list doesn't say anything about the car's handling.

Unless the car actually breaks any spin etc is always the fault of the driver, not the car. That doesn't mean that some cars and setups can't be truly evil and difficult to control, but the car doesn't go out and spin around by itself. It was your first event like you said, you're going to make mistakes. No biggie. The important thing is that you had fun and learned something for next time.

If you want some handling questions answered we need more info like I said. Check out our Suspension and Handling links sticky at the top. The book mentioned along with many other books and websites are listed.

Have fun!
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Old 09-08-03, 10:18 AM
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I echo DamonB's statement. You more than likely tried to get on the gas too early and pushed the rearend out while the tires were already at the limit. Again, easy newbie mistake ... everybody makes them. And like you say, no harm no foul.

There the ol' trick of imagining a string attached from your accelerator to the top of your steering wheel. Add power as the wheel is unwinded .... as if the imaginary string was preventing you from stepping down any further. This is a good mental exercise for beginners.

Lastly, what are your settings at? Shocks settings, alignment, tire pressures, swaybar. All this stuff is important. It's no fun trying to drive a car that's setup wrong.
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Old 09-08-03, 11:47 AM
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ttb,

Check your rear suspension bushings. They could be worn. I drove radkins, Ryan Adkins', car and my car back-to-back. It's night and day. My car handles neutrally, while Ryans FD wants to go into snap oversteer at every chance exiting each turn.

Ryan subsequently replaced the rear bushings with LaBreck urethane bushings. Now the rear end is quite stiff relative to the front. The rear doesn't want to snap into oversteer anymore, but it doesn't want to plant very well either.

Ryan has ordered new springs, shocks, and sway bars to address his suspension upgrades.

FWIW, Ryan's car makes more juice than mine, but has skinnier tires, and smaller (US spec) brakes.

That being said, I never spun Ryan's car--I'm just pointing out, that not all FDs drive the same out on track, and some setup is required for the FD Rx7 to handle well on the high speed road course.

Lastly, try softening up your Teins. I don't know what your spring rates and shock valvings are, but generally, the stiffer the setup, the higher the tendency for the car slide, given the same road tires (AVS Is).

My car is setup relatively soft (H&R springs, Showa R1 shocks, Eibach sway bars) FWIW.

Last edited by SleepR1; 09-08-03 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 09-08-03, 11:56 AM
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point well taken guys....i know it's my fault, i guess it's just more of a general curiosity question whether having those wider wheels all around makes my car more tail happy since (it could just be mental) i felt more confident when i had the stockers on (everything else being the same).

Last edited by ttb; 09-08-03 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 09-08-03, 01:09 PM
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Well, I was at the track day TTB attended, didn't know you were there! Turn 11 is tricky, it's uphill, with a plateau at the exit, blind, and leads to a huge acceleration zone so it's critical to get out of 11 correctly to get a good time.

Most guys get through 10 very fast, since the turn is downhill but slightly banked, so you can carry a bit more speed than you normally would in a 90* corner like that. Once you get to 11, some think you can take 11 the same way, but you can't. You need to get the car slowed down early, get the car to the apex and get on the gas to help settle the rear as you crest the rise.

I'm having issues with 11 as well, it's a complicated corner that almost beckons you to go faster since it leads to that long back straight.

PaulC
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Old 09-09-03, 04:01 PM
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What 17" tires do is they have smaller and therefore stiffer sidewall and make the steering more responsive. That's where your "nervous car" feeling is coming from. One advice I could give straight ahead - run more psi in front tires (you should pump up the tires for the track anyway).

Always try to brake in a straight line or be ready for trail braking oversteer. Also, estimate your apexes correctly and do not accelerate before them - doing so may lead you to think you can correct the understeer (going wide) with some throttle but you're already at the grip limit, which will result in a nice power oversteer - spectacular but slow and a good recipe for a spin.
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Old 09-10-03, 08:35 AM
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Did you re-align your car after installing the shocks and wheels? From what I understand changing the ride height, wheel offset or width can have a big impact on alignment.

Mazda changed to a softer rear anti-roll bar in 94. If you have a 93 you might want to consider making the switch.


Last edited by CCarlisi; 09-10-03 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 09-10-03, 11:55 AM
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i have a 94, car has been aligned to factory specs, although i think for next time i'll go with pettit's recommendation.
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Old 09-24-03, 04:21 AM
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Try not to blem the car unless you know it is truely hard to control, even then you should still be under control. I have seen Ford F150, Benz ML35, Cadillac Fleet Wood, Chevy Suburban, and personallly Ford Fiesta side ways through some of the turns at Thunder Hill and they were able to be kept under control. Just need more time and pratice.
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