Show Pics of your cages please!
#77
GET OFF MY LAWN
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I've been building cages for about 15 years and I build them with the drivers hoop x-brace low on the drivers side. SCCA GCR gave us the option to have the diagonal in the hoop either way or between the rear supports either way. I do one of each, the rear support brace attaching behind/above the drivers head. Then a straight horizontal bar in the hoop for belts all the way across. I worry more about a T-bone shot for the driver than a rollover. Every sedan I've seen takes a harder shot to the top of the windshield when they go shiney side down.
I'll post pix when I figure out how to do it
John
I'll post pix when I figure out how to do it
John
#78
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Here are some pics of a Honda I did 2 seasons ago. We started off with just the 2 bars like he wanted. Finally his wife got him to agree to an upgrade for side protection and roll over. Now he is good for Roll over and side.
#79
Mad Man
http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/member...tos&car_id=562 Larger pics of the cage, and some various other pics of my cars. Double click to make them larger. Carl
#82
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
The picture of your kid reminds me of the time we were bored at one of the races and rolled everybody around in Formula Atlantic tires. Except none of us fit in less than 3 tires.
I miss pro racing...
I miss pro racing...
#83
Mad Man
Originally Posted by christaylor
The picture of your kid reminds me of the time we were bored at one of the races and rolled everybody around in Formula Atlantic tires. Except none of us fit in less than 3 tires.
I miss pro racing...
I miss pro racing...
#86
old racer
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wall thickness
Hey All:
We had a big weekend. Raced the FB, got crashed out big time, then went off to an IRDC race school at Pacific Raceways. We liked that better.
Now my question: I'm looking all over the ICSCC regulations and can't find the specs for a sedan cage. I used 1 1/2" .095 tubing in mine. Some of the instructors thought it was too thin for conference racing. I'm surprised since .095 is standard fare for all circle track stuff. Whats the SCCA or ICSCC rule on that?
Many thanks,
Jim
We had a big weekend. Raced the FB, got crashed out big time, then went off to an IRDC race school at Pacific Raceways. We liked that better.
Now my question: I'm looking all over the ICSCC regulations and can't find the specs for a sedan cage. I used 1 1/2" .095 tubing in mine. Some of the instructors thought it was too thin for conference racing. I'm surprised since .095 is standard fare for all circle track stuff. Whats the SCCA or ICSCC rule on that?
Many thanks,
Jim
#89
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I know what you mean, I have raced many types of Stock Cars in the past and the expense can be less. I only use DOM for the Stock Cars now, I have seen to many wall failures in ERW material.
I put a rear support tube on a main hoop in a Camaro a few years back, had it all welded up nice and pretty and found a 6" strip where the computer operated welder forgot to weld up.
Most top brand late model frames are DOM or seamless tubing now do to safety reason. Plus it is a bit easier to repair frames and rails due to the consistant wall thickness.
Adding an extra $150-200 for safety is a cheap investment in the long run for me for liability. It also lets me sleep better at night.
I put a rear support tube on a main hoop in a Camaro a few years back, had it all welded up nice and pretty and found a 6" strip where the computer operated welder forgot to weld up.
Most top brand late model frames are DOM or seamless tubing now do to safety reason. Plus it is a bit easier to repair frames and rails due to the consistant wall thickness.
Adding an extra $150-200 for safety is a cheap investment in the long run for me for liability. It also lets me sleep better at night.
#90
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Erw Tubing
Hate to be a know it all, but any enginner knows ERW and DOM start out the same as ERW tubing. They are both rolled from flat plate, then they have their seam welded together. They are made from the same material. The ONLY difference, is DOM gets a finishing pass down the inside to smooth out the material from the inside. A seam can split on either one, as their both welded. There are many good web sites on the internet telling all about the mfg process. Seamless tubing or bar stock is the ONLY way to rid your self of the welded seam.
#91
Hobby or mental illness?
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http://www.copperweld.com/ltvdominsert.html
Sure, most DOM starts as ERW, but it's not plain ERW when it's finished. It's kind of like getting pasteurized milk out of a dairy rather than drinking from the bottom of a cow. Yes, it starts out the same, but the finished product is much different. I'll take the safety of DOM along with the safety of pasteurization, thank you very much.
Sure, most DOM starts as ERW, but it's not plain ERW when it's finished. It's kind of like getting pasteurized milk out of a dairy rather than drinking from the bottom of a cow. Yes, it starts out the same, but the finished product is much different. I'll take the safety of DOM along with the safety of pasteurization, thank you very much.
Last edited by RoadRaceJosh; 03-19-05 at 09:58 PM. Reason: Learned more about ERW vs. DOM
#92
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ERW or DOM
Just do as I said. Look on the internet for all you ever need to know. And yes, DOM is not seamless. Just look at their prices. Do a search on the improved touring .com forum for this thread. DICK.
#96
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DOM or ERW
Tell me why or how DOM is better/safer than ERW. Please do this in terms an engineer can understand. This is not a seat-of-the pants answerable question. SHOW ME THE MEAT!!!!
QUOTE=RoadRaceJosh]http://www.copperweld.com/ltvdominsert.html
Sure, most DOM starts as ERW, but it's not plain ERW when it's finished. It's kind of like getting pasteurized milk out of a dairy rather than drinking from the bottom of a cow. Yes, it starts out the same, but the finished product is much different. I'll take the safety of DOM along with the safety of pasteurization, thank you very much.[/QUOTE]
QUOTE=RoadRaceJosh]http://www.copperweld.com/ltvdominsert.html
Sure, most DOM starts as ERW, but it's not plain ERW when it's finished. It's kind of like getting pasteurized milk out of a dairy rather than drinking from the bottom of a cow. Yes, it starts out the same, but the finished product is much different. I'll take the safety of DOM along with the safety of pasteurization, thank you very much.[/QUOTE]
#97
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Originally Posted by Dick Elliott
Tell me why or how DOM is better/safer than ERW. Please do this in terms an engineer can understand. This is not a seat-of-the pants answerable question. SHOW ME THE MEAT!!!!
"Metallurgically, drawing improves the tube's concentricity, tensile strength, and hardness. This process creates approximately 30% greater strength and stiffness in DOM-tube over its ERW-tube counterpart."
#98
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DOM or ERW
SCOTT!!! I should have known you would answer sooner or later. Don't you ever work at the station. I know what you said is true. I would just like to know what kind of testing SCCA did to outlaw ERW. At this rate, SCCA will outlaw DOM next, then seamless, and mandate that only solid bar stock is legal. Have you ever seen an ERW cage fail because of the materal? In 52 years of racing I have not. SHOW ME THE MEAT. Wheres the proof? DICK.
#99
Stay tuned...
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Originally Posted by rfreeman27
For Cage pics please go here. I am not going to resize and loose all the detail!
http://www.nopistons.com/forums/inde...ic=45820&st=75
The finished pics start at the end of page 4. Also check out the rest of the thread, lots of cool **** in there
As for the cage, it is very easy to get in and out of, and there is actually ample head room when I am sitting in my driving position. The cage is molloy, 6 point, legal to 8.50 nhra. I have a removeable window net as well that is not pictured.
-bobby
http://www.nopistons.com/forums/inde...ic=45820&st=75
The finished pics start at the end of page 4. Also check out the rest of the thread, lots of cool **** in there
As for the cage, it is very easy to get in and out of, and there is actually ample head room when I am sitting in my driving position. The cage is molloy, 6 point, legal to 8.50 nhra. I have a removeable window net as well that is not pictured.
-bobby
Also, where did you get your cage done and what was the cost?
The cage looks great!
Anthony
#100
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Dick Elliott
SCOTT!!! I should have known you would answer sooner or later. Don't you ever work at the station. I know what you said is true. I would just like to know what kind of testing SCCA did to outlaw ERW. At this rate, SCCA will outlaw DOM next, then seamless, and mandate that only solid bar stock is legal. Have you ever seen an ERW cage fail because of the materal? In 52 years of racing I have not. SHOW ME THE MEAT. Wheres the proof? DICK.
Inspect the ends carefully of a piece of ERW and dom tubing that are the same size and thickness. You will see the ERW has major short comings in the wall dimension. One side thick, the other side thin. The DOM is even all the way around. That alone should tell you the the DOM will offer more protection. Now, I am not saying that there are not mills out there that produce high quality ERW, but they are hard to find sometimes. I have seen some that looks just like DOM but the weld is still visible, but there are some that look like crap.
If you have access to a press with a hydraulic pressure gauge, try crushing the tube from its side. You will see the DOM will require more pressure to crush the tube that the ERW.
For testing the tube from SCCA point of view, you could take a chance on using ERW, paint the cage to cover the welds. Drill a hole for measuring the inside and outside dimensions, and may even pass the test. But if the tech know what he is doing and comes up with an off measurement, he could make the whole cage illegal. I do not think that would happen, but as a cage fabricator, I am not willing to take that chance. There is to much to lose.
And after a major wreck or a fatality, SCCA seizes the car and they inspect everything with a fine tooth comb. I would not want to explain why I used inferior materials to SCCA. That would make all the cages I have done suspect.
Also major testing has been done by the bigger race divisions and Insurance companies are mandating the change for better rates. That is also why we have to use SFI products with dates, it keeps the Attorneys happy.
I do think you will have to worry about using solid round stock for roll cages. Racing would be outlawed for other things first, like noise and environment pollution, and anything else the enviro ****'s can come up with.