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Shocks!!

Old 12-04-05, 12:40 PM
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Shocks!!

Hello I have an '85 GSL, and I want to turn it into a rally car. Do you guys have any recomendations on shocks, and bushings?
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Old 12-04-05, 01:09 PM
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DMS, or maybe Ohlins... something with a large diameter shaft to take the abuse.
Good luck!
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Old 12-04-05, 03:59 PM
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How much will those set me back??
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Old 12-06-05, 05:01 PM
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I am not looking for something to hard-core. I also need to comute in this car, so I need something tough, but not something so stiff teh car is imposible to commute in. I would also like something cost effective if you know what I mean.
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Old 12-07-05, 07:53 AM
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You're asking for an aweful lot of compromises.
How about a set of Tokicos.
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Old 12-07-05, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Travis R
You're asking for an aweful lot of compromises.
How about a set of Tokicos.

lmao....would u say AGXes arent rugged enough for the rally dept. or could u just have some custom valving done to the blues? witch ones have larger shaft diameter?

Last edited by --MAstermind--; 12-07-05 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 12-08-05, 03:03 PM
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I have no idea. I imagine AGXs could work just as well for a "rally car" that gets driven to work.
I was thinking of the Illuminas, BTW.
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Old 12-08-05, 06:32 PM
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i was thinking illuminas as well. I figure tehy are ajustable. Just make em 5 in fron and 4 in back when rally racing, and 3 and one for the street.
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Old 12-18-05, 07:48 PM
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I have done more reaserch and they seem a bit pricey. I am thinking about some nice Bilstein shocks. I have herd many good things about them. Has anyone used them before?? How did they work out for your car? I am also wondering, what ones to use/ part numbers, because I noticed when on the Bilstien website they don't actualy have anything for the Rx-7. I need something that will be as much as a direct insert as posible, I want to race in Production 3 class rally racing. I am also wondering if you guys know whare I can pick up some decent, rubber stockish bushings?

Thanks Ted
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Old 12-19-05, 12:03 PM
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Bilstein numbers for the 1gen car (direct from the Bilstein product designer at the Motorsports office in CA, a good friend of mine....ignore the "Volkswagen" listings, as most of the "good" valving on their shocks/struts are originally intended for the VW/Audi/Porsche cars).

Front - P30-0104
Rear - B46-0347
Bushing for rear - E4-GV1-Z044A05 or #408516 (required)

IMO the KYB's have too much inherant compression valving, and with both rebound and compression adjusted together there is no good way to dial it out-- makes the car skittery....EVERY car that I have run KYB's on (AGX, GR-2, or Gas-A-Just) has behaved that way, even our own Fiero Rallye car with Gas-A-Justs up front (custom Bilsteins in the works for '06).

Good luck!
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Old 12-19-05, 12:20 PM
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OK - I hate to disillusion anyone who really wants to race, but you are starting with a seriously flawed set of criteria here that will cause you nothing but trouble. First, because REAL competition cars require extensive safety modifications, they make spectacularly bad daily drivers. I'm not just an opinionated jackass, I own fully prepped race cars, daily drivers, track day cars, and have owned fully caged street cars in the past. If you want to run performance stage rallys with any credible sanctioning body a full roll cage is going to be required, as are a minimum of five point belts and an approved helmet. Do you intend to wear the helmet and keep the belts snugged down every time you use it as a daily driver? If not, that same cage will threaten your life every time you drive the car. Even a minor fender bender has the peotential to kill you if a crtical part of your body is able to contact the cage bars. Believe me, putting on the 5 point harness and cinching it down tight is NOT going to be something you want to do every time you need to run to the mini-mart for a gallon of milk. On top of that, even the best competition belts stretch in any real accident, which is why most sanctioning bodies require Snell certified helmets. In an accident your head is a heavy lollipop on the end of a flexible stick that has a way of coming into contact with hard unyielding steel cage bars. It is invariably your head that deforms, not the bars - so add a certified helmet to your milk run. Now, most competition vehicles that want to have any chance of not being the slowest and least fun car on the course require the removal of weight in the form of creature comforts, padding, sound deadening, etc. Now your dash to the store is in full safety gear, in a car that is loud, harsh riding, cold, and to add insult to injury - the police are likely to pull over anyone wearing a helmet and restraints in a car that looks anything like a racecar. Are you kind of getting the picture?

So - to summarize, here is my advice:

1) Your racecar and your streetcar are different cars. If you can't afford two beat up Rx-7's the truth is you can't afford to race.

2) Buy someone else's beat up rally car and learn the lessons that you probably think you already know. Two of the guiding principles in racing are"you don't know nearly as much as you think you do" and "there is always someone who learned it the hard way before you, and are selling their lesson at pennies on the dollar". You can not build a racecar for as little as you can buy someone else's. Period.

3) Once you hve solved the safety, and basic durability problems of a racecar the biggest gains come from figuring out how to drive it well. Give yourself some time on crappy and cheap suspension parts to figure out what you want the car to do differently. Then start replacing stuff with go fast parts when you have developed enough experience that you can even detect the difference they make.

Good Luck with your project!
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Old 12-19-05, 01:58 PM
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^ Great advice here, I have bought 4 FB GSLs for less than $400, buy a stocker for road use and buy an old FB rally car for racing.

By the way what type of rallying are you talking about, Rallycross, Road Rallies, or genuine dirt road space noted rallies. Because nothing short of the Koni Yellow, Bilsteins etc will do the serious job.
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Old 12-19-05, 03:58 PM
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I have a full set of Tokico Illuminas that I bought for my racecar a few months ago and never used, and are still in boxes if anyone wants...let me know.
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Old 12-19-05, 04:22 PM
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How much are you asking for the illuminas. I am aware of the complication of the race car. In fact I want to buy a beater, however, its the insurance I cannot aford. Insurance for me is $2200 a car per year. I can only isure one car. The type of rally racing I will be getting into is called Production 3 rally racing. The cars basicly have to be bone stock. They have to use all OEM parts, and must way at least as much as the curb weight. Before I start to rally race, I will probly rally cross for a season, at least.

I have also been reading up on roll cage regulations for the class of rally racing I want to get into. I have also talked to some people, and they say that if you hit your head and the roll cage is properly built, you would be worse out without the roll cage. The only thing that worries me is the side bars. They are very easy to hit my head on, but then again, I wend sideways into a pile of dirt at 20 and hit the stock roof side bar thingy, with the plastic stuff on it. I figure with padding the metal bar will be simaler.


I apritiate your concern though. thanks.
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Old 12-19-05, 06:20 PM
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The Bilstein shocks that were recomended for the rear, "Rear - B46-0347" I could not find on teh blistien website. I was wondering if that was a typo?
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Old 12-19-05, 08:02 PM
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Another option I just thought of, is to get some racing beat springs, and Tokico Hp non ajustable shocks. The total cost is $ 400USD. I think that for the level I will be racing that this is suitable. I will not be going all out, and although Bilsteins are nice, I would not be able to aford springs for them, so I would ride my stock springs. Another option that seems nice is the Shocks and Springs from ITS racing. $ 612 for the springs and shocks. Has anyone used the ITS springs and shocks, before, or any of the other ideas? ( I like the cheapest option it is cheap, and I think it is uitable)

THanks Ted.
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Old 12-19-05, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by no_name
The Bilstein shocks that were recomended for the rear, "Rear - B46-0347" I could not find on teh blistien website. I was wondering if that was a typo?
Nope, when you order it from your local Bilstein Distributor, they will need to call Bilstein first to confirm whether the part number is in stock in the US/Canada at the time...similar to their Motorsports applications. Keeps you away from those Internet-Garage-Businesses scamming cheap parts online (shox.com is NOT one of those, neither is AJUSA.com, both good places to order from if you need to have them shipped to you and both authorized distributors of many brands).
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Old 12-20-05, 11:23 AM
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I see. I went to bilstien.com and could not find them in their search engeine. The fron't I found in like 15 seconds. How much will Bilstien shocks and shipping to Canada cost, in total if anyone knows?

Thanks Ted
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Old 12-21-05, 05:08 PM
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And If some one could help me find them rear shocks... Any spring recomendations?

Thanks Ted.
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Old 12-23-05, 12:37 PM
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Bump
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Old 12-23-05, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Boswoj
OK - I hate to disillusion anyone who really wants to race, but you are starting with a seriously flawed set of criteria here that will cause you nothing but trouble. First, because REAL competition cars require extensive safety modifications, they make spectacularly bad daily drivers. I'm not just an opinionated jackass, I own fully prepped race cars, daily drivers, track day cars, and have owned fully caged street cars in the past. If you want to run performance stage rallys with any credible sanctioning body a full roll cage is going to be required, as are a minimum of five point belts and an approved helmet. Do you intend to wear the helmet and keep the belts snugged down every time you use it as a daily driver? If not, that same cage will threaten your life every time you drive the car. Even a minor fender bender has the peotential to kill you if a crtical part of your body is able to contact the cage bars. Believe me, putting on the 5 point harness and cinching it down tight is NOT going to be something you want to do every time you need to run to the mini-mart for a gallon of milk. On top of that, even the best competition belts stretch in any real accident, which is why most sanctioning bodies require Snell certified helmets. In an accident your head is a heavy lollipop on the end of a flexible stick that has a way of coming into contact with hard unyielding steel cage bars. It is invariably your head that deforms, not the bars - so add a certified helmet to your milk run. Now, most competition vehicles that want to have any chance of not being the slowest and least fun car on the course require the removal of weight in the form of creature comforts, padding, sound deadening, etc. Now your dash to the store is in full safety gear, in a car that is loud, harsh riding, cold, and to add insult to injury - the police are likely to pull over anyone wearing a helmet and restraints in a car that looks anything like a racecar. Are you kind of getting the picture?

So - to summarize, here is my advice:

1) Your racecar and your streetcar are different cars. If you can't afford two beat up Rx-7's the truth is you can't afford to race.

2) Buy someone else's beat up rally car and learn the lessons that you probably think you already know. Two of the guiding principles in racing are"you don't know nearly as much as you think you do" and "there is always someone who learned it the hard way before you, and are selling their lesson at pennies on the dollar". You can not build a racecar for as little as you can buy someone else's. Period.

3) Once you hve solved the safety, and basic durability problems of a racecar the biggest gains come from figuring out how to drive it well. Give yourself some time on crappy and cheap suspension parts to figure out what you want the car to do differently. Then start replacing stuff with go fast parts when you have developed enough experience that you can even detect the difference they make.

Good Luck with your project!
I responded to no_name's post in the first gen section, and this really sums it up much better!

If you are concerned with the cost of shocks, then you really need to look at the cost of doing a rally before thinking of prepping a car: entry fee, gas, food, crew & chase vehicle, etc.

Buying a prepped car is always always always cheaper than prepping one, particularly when you are starting out.

Then again, I think we are all assuming you are talking about off-road WRC type rallying. If it is just simple TSD stuff, then it doesn't matter what you do to your car - just make sure it goes, stops, and turns, and the odometer is reasonably accurate!
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Old 12-24-05, 11:42 AM
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Yes I am planing WRC style rallying, but not to that level. Just basic stuff where the cars are stockish. They just have moded suspention, that have to use the stock mounts.

It is the cheapest form of performace/ sprint style rallying you can get into, and I figure its a good place to start. I have concidered buying a pre built car, however, the ones I looked at were all front wheel drive, and not that helathy. The shock towers were disconetcting from the side of the cars ect, ect. I was actulay this / / close to buying a rally modified VW Scirrocco.

I would also like to point out this will my comuter car until I work up enough money to afoord insurance on a beater an race. The cost of inssuring a second car is almost the cost of racing, so....

Thanks Ted
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Old 12-24-05, 11:58 AM
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Some experienced racers here are trying to tell you don't plan on racing your daily driver car. The amount of crash damage in rally is very high, especially for novices. Most people on this board try and give good advice, stuff that they have learned the hard way; we are trying to help you out. If you can't afford to race the right way, then don't start until you can afford to race the right way.
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Old 12-24-05, 11:10 PM
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I know. But I am determined to fail, succead or wrap my car around a tree. It is something I want to do, and I need to do. I may wind up buying a Volvo, as a beater, or something. I need to build my rally car first, and see what I will do from there.
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Old 12-25-05, 10:21 AM
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Man, you need to make sure the car is safe, then race it and develop it as you go, that way you can learn for yourself what you like and want. So my recommendation is to just get it legal for the class you want to run in and drive it like you stole it. As parts break upgrade them.

Just make sure you start with a safe legal car.
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