Race Pads?
08-08-11, 06:45 PM
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Race Pads?
Alright so time for the eternal question, which brake pads to use? Got the car post race prep (and race scarred) previous owners were using Hawk Blues however after a seasson or 2 of using them I cant honestly say Im all the impressed with them, they stop on a dime however they destroy rotors. Set that was on the car when I got it heat craked a front rotor first weekend out, second set did a decent job (replaced due to damage to pads after caliper fell partly off after on track contact) 3rd set severly heat cracked a front rotor and now my 4th set has already glazed after just a couple weekends (still stopping on a dime though). So anyways what are you guys running for pads? 
08-10-11, 09:40 AM
#4
Have to say ive had the opposite experience. I used Carbotechs for a couple years and regardless of how careful i was bedding them in. They Glazed, fadded, over heated, and generally were all around terrible pads. Plus they squealed and dusted like crazy.
Hawk pads have been my choice since. The blues do tear up rotors and dust like crazy, and the big downside is the dust is SUPER corrosive.
But, the new compounds are head and shoulders better. All race pads dust but the HT and DTC compounds' dust is not corrosive and washes of easily. Plus they last longer, are easier on rotors, and stop continually with great torque and modulation capability.
If you are running stock FC brakes (non-ABS) i would try a DTC 70 in the front and a 60 in the rear. Or if those are too aggressive for you, go 60 in the front and 30 in the rear, as the FC is a little too rear bias in factory configuration. For 1st gens and FDs i dunno...
Also, hawks, are very quiet for a track/race pad (once bedded in).
Hawk pads have been my choice since. The blues do tear up rotors and dust like crazy, and the big downside is the dust is SUPER corrosive.
But, the new compounds are head and shoulders better. All race pads dust but the HT and DTC compounds' dust is not corrosive and washes of easily. Plus they last longer, are easier on rotors, and stop continually with great torque and modulation capability.
If you are running stock FC brakes (non-ABS) i would try a DTC 70 in the front and a 60 in the rear. Or if those are too aggressive for you, go 60 in the front and 30 in the rear, as the FC is a little too rear bias in factory configuration. For 1st gens and FDs i dunno...
Also, hawks, are very quiet for a track/race pad (once bedded in).
08-10-11, 10:38 PM
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Another vote for the DTC70s. I've had great success on the track with them. Excellent initial bite and not nearly as hard on rotors as the blues. If you want to spend a little more the Ferrodo DS3000s are great, seem to last and have relatively low dust.
08-11-11, 08:51 AM
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IMO nothing beats PFC pads but you'll likely have to open your wallet for the newer/updated pads. However 01s have been around a while and aren't that expensive and even 97s will get the job done. For cars with light weight springs or front bias 01 in the front and 97s out back will work well.
08-11-11, 11:12 AM
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IMO nothing beats PFC pads but you'll likely have to open your wallet for the newer/updated pads. However 01s have been around a while and aren't that expensive and even 97s will get the job done. For cars with light weight springs or front bias 01 in the front and 97s out back will work well.
the drives LOVE them. wear depends on the compound, but the 06 compound will last the whole 25 hours. rotor wear is basically zero. they do leave a thick black dust, but it comes right off.
however to get 1st gen pads, you may have to buy something else and trim em? they will do specials, they made us honda pads in a couple of compounds they don't list on the website
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08-11-11, 02:33 PM
#8
I agree as well. I use to run the PFC 01's on the Porsche Big Red's and loved them. Just as solid as the Hawk's and no rotor wear. I never monitor dust. The issue I ran into is that they don't make the 01 for the rears. I also like the Contingency that Hawk provides for us grassroots guys and they work just as well since my rotors generally last around 2-3 years on track. Six of one and half dozen of the other.
) with wilwoods.
08-12-11, 12:45 PM
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I've not run a first gen RX-7, but I've raced against them in ITA and it seems braking is a very weak part of the car -- and they're prone to crack rotors. So no matter what pad you use, make sure you have really good brake ducting.
As for pads, I raced an ITA Miata for years on Hawk Blues and they worked great. I'm currently building an FC for SCCA's STU class, and I decided to try a different brake pad. I heard from the SCCA Production-class guys that the Raybestos ST-43 is a good pad. The advantage to the Raybestos is they're cut down from a larger pad, so you can get them for nearly any application (including the first gen RX-7s). I ordered mine from Porterfield, they were ready in less than a day, and if you're an SCCA member you get a discount that puts them in the same price range as a Carbotech.
I haven't run them yet, but the Prod guys say they last forever, are easy on the rotors, and work great. Last year's FP National Champion had them on his Integra, so that's good enough for me to give them a shot.
You can see the pads and backing plate are a little rough around the edges because they're physically sliced out of a larger pad, but the upside is you'll get more swept area because the pad material goes all the way to the edge of the backing plate.
As for pads, I raced an ITA Miata for years on Hawk Blues and they worked great. I'm currently building an FC for SCCA's STU class, and I decided to try a different brake pad. I heard from the SCCA Production-class guys that the Raybestos ST-43 is a good pad. The advantage to the Raybestos is they're cut down from a larger pad, so you can get them for nearly any application (including the first gen RX-7s). I ordered mine from Porterfield, they were ready in less than a day, and if you're an SCCA member you get a discount that puts them in the same price range as a Carbotech.
I haven't run them yet, but the Prod guys say they last forever, are easy on the rotors, and work great. Last year's FP National Champion had them on his Integra, so that's good enough for me to give them a shot.
You can see the pads and backing plate are a little rough around the edges because they're physically sliced out of a larger pad, but the upside is you'll get more swept area because the pad material goes all the way to the edge of the backing plate.
Last edited by Prof. Chaos; 08-12-11 at 12:49 PM.
08-12-11, 09:25 PM
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I haven't run them yet, but the Prod guys say they last forever, are easy on the rotors, and work great. Last year's FP National Champion had them on his Integra, so that's good enough for me to give them a shot.
You can see the pads and backing plate are a little rough around the edges because they're physically sliced out of a larger pad, but the upside is you'll get more swept area because the pad material goes all the way to the edge of the backing plate.
You can see the pads and backing plate are a little rough around the edges because they're physically sliced out of a larger pad, but the upside is you'll get more swept area because the pad material goes all the way to the edge of the backing plate.
Hmm now Im intrigued, any chance you can send me your opinons of them after youve run them? Unfortunatly due to class rules I cant run any ducting (just remove front splash shields on rotors) so I have to live with what I got. However at $150 a set of rotors (rotors are part of hub so replace bearings as well) Im willing to expermient with diffrent pads and see what I get
08-12-11, 10:03 PM
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It'll be a while before I run them. The car will be finished in October (I was hoping to be done this month) and I'll do a practice day sometime in November to dial the car in for the 2012 race season, which kicks on at the end of January in my neck of the woods.
The thread on the ST-43 that convinced me to get these pads made was on prodracing.com/prodcar, but I can't find the thread right now. The thread had some good info in it if you want to spend some time searching the forum.
The thread on the ST-43 that convinced me to get these pads made was on prodracing.com/prodcar, but I can't find the thread right now. The thread had some good info in it if you want to spend some time searching the forum.
08-12-11, 11:04 PM
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I figure Ill run what Ive got for the last race of the seasson (if I race in it at all) so itd be the 2012 seasson before I change brakes anyways and around here the seasson starts around April so...
08-13-11, 10:45 AM
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No ducting?!!!! Now that is an odd (and ill conceived, IMNSHO) restriction. While engine and suspension tweeks are mainly for performance, keeping the brakes cool is also a safety issue. What group are you running with?
08-13-11, 04:23 PM
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08-13-11, 04:38 PM
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I generically run PFC pads and love them, however on the RX-8's using stock calipers we are running the Cobalt XR-1 compound in the front and XR3 (or 4, would have to check) in the rear. Provides excellent braking, very good wear, and the balance is really good. I do not care much for Hawk pads, so have no recent experience with them.
My guess is that to get a PFC or Cobalt padset for your car you are going to have to have them made, which can (and often does) take 2-4 weeks. Neither of the pads I use or recommend are cheap, but they work which is much more important
You are of course welcome to come by the shop anytime to check things out.
My guess is that to get a PFC or Cobalt padset for your car you are going to have to have them made, which can (and often does) take 2-4 weeks. Neither of the pads I use or recommend are cheap, but they work which is much more important
You are of course welcome to come by the shop anytime to check things out.
08-16-11, 12:53 AM
#20
It was a good read, but they used HT10's on the rear instead of DTC's. I went from 1.43 max G's with DTC 60 fronts and HT10Rear in the rear to 1.6X with DTC60's on all 4 corners. I'm going to try 70 fronts and 60 rears next since they don't make the 70's for our cars in the rear. That'll be a year or so though.
08-30-11, 11:15 PM
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I've been running DTC-60 in the front, and DTC-30 in the rear on the FD. Stock size brake rotors with custom ducting. Around 370-380rwhp, and so far have yet to crack the rotors and wear seams good so far (only about 3 weekends on them). Very happy with stopping power.
I like DTC much better than the HAWK blues I was running on my FC, no cracks on the rotor and seem to dust less.
I like DTC much better than the HAWK blues I was running on my FC, no cracks on the rotor and seem to dust less.
12-29-11, 04:12 PM
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yellows are good. I run them.
I actually like them better than hawks.
I run Yellow Stuff exclusively on all my track machines (and one of my DD's).
One thing to remember is that no matter which pad you use, it needs to match the track. if you have a higher speed track, you need a pad that can bite when cool. If you have a track with lots of brake zones, you need a pad that doesn't fade under heat!
I found that the yellows were good for my track which has a lot of braking and very few higher speed areas. I ran Hawks but found that the pad got cooked and reached the end of its useful life after one weekend.
I actually like them better than hawks.
I run Yellow Stuff exclusively on all my track machines (and one of my DD's).
One thing to remember is that no matter which pad you use, it needs to match the track. if you have a higher speed track, you need a pad that can bite when cool. If you have a track with lots of brake zones, you need a pad that doesn't fade under heat!
I found that the yellows were good for my track which has a lot of braking and very few higher speed areas. I ran Hawks but found that the pad got cooked and reached the end of its useful life after one weekend.
01-01-12, 11:43 AM
#25
EBC Yellowstuff
IMHO, the yellowstuff pads are inadequate for racing with the stock FC 4-piston front calipers. I no longer use them on the track and put them on my street FC instead. There is some, but not much, improvement over stock pads, even after repeated stops to warm them up.
I did use them in the rear until one of them disintegrated at the end of the front straight at Laguna Seca. So one the rear pads was just backing plate against rotor. Pedal went straight to the floor with the car at 100+ mph. Luckily, this was just after the checkered flag so I had already let off the throttle. Another pump of the brakes took up the slack and I straight-lined it off the track in a controlled fashion. But after that dramatic moment, I've ditched the yellows.
As for warming up the brakes, my experience is that it only takes 2-3 corners (max) of medium to hard braking to get the temps up high enough for a race pad to bite. Brakes dissipate energy by friction, and friction creates heat. It doesn't take long before the surface layer of the pads and the surface of the rotor get hot. Even when stone cold, a race pad typically has a higher friction coefficient than stock pads.
Going back to the yellows -- EBC claims they're great as an endurance pad. My experience differs also on this point. After one track weekend, nearly 50% of the pad was gone. On the other hand, they do last forever on the street.....
On the plus side:
they're not particularly dusty or noisy (if used with noise shims) and the dust isn't very corrosive (doesn't pit your wheels, etc.).\
they're easy to come by online & even available special order at Pep Boys.
I did use them in the rear until one of them disintegrated at the end of the front straight at Laguna Seca. So one the rear pads was just backing plate against rotor. Pedal went straight to the floor with the car at 100+ mph. Luckily, this was just after the checkered flag so I had already let off the throttle. Another pump of the brakes took up the slack and I straight-lined it off the track in a controlled fashion. But after that dramatic moment, I've ditched the yellows.
As for warming up the brakes, my experience is that it only takes 2-3 corners (max) of medium to hard braking to get the temps up high enough for a race pad to bite. Brakes dissipate energy by friction, and friction creates heat. It doesn't take long before the surface layer of the pads and the surface of the rotor get hot. Even when stone cold, a race pad typically has a higher friction coefficient than stock pads.
Going back to the yellows -- EBC claims they're great as an endurance pad. My experience differs also on this point. After one track weekend, nearly 50% of the pad was gone. On the other hand, they do last forever on the street.....
On the plus side:
they're not particularly dusty or noisy (if used with noise shims) and the dust isn't very corrosive (doesn't pit your wheels, etc.).\
they're easy to come by online & even available special order at Pep Boys.