0verb00st

Ok, before you flame me, this isn't another "can my n/a fc drift" thread. I have already read through those. Drifting doesn't have a set definition other then controlled oversteer. For the purpose of this thread, the drifting discussed will be based on competitive drifting at a local track.

When I went to watch a local drift competition, I saw an N/A fc trying to drift...I say trying because he was understeering more then over steering. From what I observed , he was trying to power over...very hard to do in an underpowered (lets face it, an n/a fc is underpowered) car. Whenever he would do this, his front wheels would lock up, and the back wheels would grip the road. Drifting an underpowered car is possible, look at the hachi roku (ae86), but thats a completely different animal. The FC is unique because of its low polar movement. This was showed when a tii tore up the track with flawless transitions through drifts (all one fluid drift). The n/a fc almost never lost traction to the rear tires. It looked like a stock base model, with stock height. It got really bad wobble, and all of the weight was put to one corner of the car.

At first, this discouraged me from bringing my GTU to the next competition. Then it made me start thinking. The stock suspension and tires where causing him to fail. The suspension should be stiffer to prevent "wobble", and the front tires should be low profile and wider to prevent understeer. The second factor in the n/a's inability to drift seemed to be the drivers technique. I think that instead of trying to power over, it would be wiser to pull the e-break, and after the traction is broken, use the throttle to maintain the slide. The throttle will only be able to control the drifts to a certain extent, the extent of the power availible. Like I said, the car was quiet, so I couldn't hear the RPM's that he was drifting at. Since the FC has all of the power at the top of the RPM range, I think it would be wisest to keep your RPM's high. (Does the stock FC have a rev limiter? I think it would be wise to get one if not, to give the driver the ability to "bounce off" it in second gear to maintain the high rpm's without damaging the engine.). Like it was said a numerous amount of times, (beefy n/a thread) an fc can only have so many things done to it, with out sacrificing drivability. Porting and polishing is the number one way to get more power out of an fc, but some people don't have the resources to do that.

Before going to the next event, I will have to "prepare my car". It is a 1988 GTU, so I dont know if the suspension is adequate for drifting. I dont have the resources to port my engine so I will have to settle for a full exhaust, and maybe a custom built intake box. (the trottle body mods, and anything to do with modifying the fuel system seems to be pointless on an n/a).

I started this thread get other peoples opinions and hear their experiences with drifting an n/a fc. Lets get this thread rolling.

wrankin

Sounds fine, but how about we get it moved to the "Race Techniques" sub-forum, which is intended for this type of discussion.

Moderators?

Gene

iTrader: (1)

I can't imagine trying to drift successfully with the stock DTSS still working.

Boswoj

+1 with wrankin.

The "drifting is not racing" battle has been beaten to death by both sides enough all ready. The race techniques area has been designated as a fair place for drifting posts so those of us who are interested in actual racing don't have to wade through all of the drifting posts which are useless, and often annoying for people who are trading race oriented information.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

The problem with NA's is the same as the Hachi guys.

You usually don't have enough power to keep the drift going through the turns.
You can get the first one off good but your usually done by that point unless you make up for it with a really fast entry speed.

Front grip is very important.
I've used brand new 205/65/17's Fuzion HRI's and they worked great. The next event I used old and worn down 215/45/17 Nitto's and they never gripped so I understeered through all the turns.

Using stock suspension can be done. It will give some body roll which can either send you into snap over steer or help initiate the next turn if you catch it just right.
Coilovers will make it much more predictable though.

I still have the stock DTSS and I guess have just gotten use to my car and usually tell when it's about to give. I'll be doing the removal on my track car before I get it out.

In the end you just need to get out there yourself and see what works.
My problem is that I chicken out on entry speed and usually fall short of the end of the course.

DriftRX7

Not only for N/A but what kind of suspension set-ups you have made for your FC's to make it a proper drifter? I had D1SL attended Nissan Silvia this season but one bastard bought it off me so now I'm building next weapon out of FC TII I already have.

I have done some 60-80 laps with that almost stock one (upgraded boost, HKS suspension and some strut tower bars) and couple of notices are front tires that clearly don't turn at all (maybe some 20 degrees less than my Silvia) and weight shifts are HUGE because of that ridiculous rear stabilizer.

So I'm planning to have thicker rear stabilizer and change every bushing to pillow joints (strictly race car so won't matter if it's HARD) and have some firmer coils on the back.

But the front axle is the big question mark here so I would really like to know if somebody have done some mods for the front linkages. I have pictures from couple of D1SL cars form Japan but problem is that they are for sale and I'm almost sure that Japanese will strip all the good parts off before putting their race cars up for sale so those cars have stock lower arms on the front.

Plan is to make a new lower arm bringing front wheel out some 25-30mm and then have a modified steering gear to have more turn angle and to fix the ackerman steering. What else should I be looking at?

Ranzo

Problem is that nobody makes good lower arms for an FC. I have seen pillow ball arms at a shop on Japan but 900 bux steered me away. I have always used stock bushings etc. in the front with no problems. FC's naturally have understeer due to lots of rear traction. Best bet is to widen the front with lots of camber and get pillow ball stabilizer end links to adjust preload. But above all you need to learn how to drive the car first.

I also drift using the stock dtss. I honestly cant tell the difference in or out. If you are not real familiar with drifting your car then adding parts to enhance steering angle etc. is hurting your learning curve.

ilia

iTrader: (4)

I thought I already posted in this thread, but apparently not cause I don't see my reply. Here's the low down. The stock FC is fine to drift in, NA or TII. DTSS, bushings, swaybars, whatever are fine stock. If it's not working, it's not the car, it's you.

Here's the setup I've been using all season:

NA GTU FC, 17x9 with 225 front, 17x10 with 235 rear, tokico blue dampers with Eibach craptastic progressive springs. Some random fart can, and all stock everything else. Car slides great.

Valkyrie

I would highly recommend a bucket seat as a first drifting mod, even before an upgraded suspension... and a CG lock, if you have manual seatbelts.

A steering wheel and spacer will also help, but not as much as the full bucket seat, unless it's too far away (which it will be unless you're short).

4WDrift

iTrader: (3)

Well i feel i should put in my two bits. I was drifting alot in my Fc when i first got it. hell it was baptized in the fire od drifting a week after i got it. I noticed a diffrence when i swapped the dtss bushings. The car really wouldnt stay pointed in one direction. part of it was me i understood and part of it was the dtss. when i changed them out for the next event the car was more predictable if you will.

As for the TII having too much rear traction i fail to believe that, i have 225's in the rear and still it wont stay planted.

Ranzo

I been drifting and racing fc's since 97 or so and I will say that dtss eliminators will make the car somewhat more predictable but i see so many people focused on parts. That might be caused by more people talking about drifting that actually doing it. I look at driving like playing golf or whatever, buy the biggest baddest driver in the world if you are holding it wrong or standing wrong you will still hit like crap. Same with driving. Save your money for most parts and start driving and learning. I would also agree that a bucket seat is one of the single most valuable investments you can make. It is hard to feel what the car is doing if you are jamming yourself against the door to stay still.

As far as rear traction..... it is all relative. As a whole FC's have lots of rear traction. More importantly the front of the FC is skinny which makes it difficult to get traction in comparison to the rear. So it might not be so much that is has enourmous amounts of traction in the rear but that the front is lacking by comparison.

4WDrift

iTrader: (3)

Ranzo has a point i didnt get the chance to make since i was a work, the single most valueable upgrade you can do to your car is upgrade the driver.

For me i feel that my stock rx-7 is perfect for the things i am doing with it. i auto-x, do aggressive mountain driving, and i am slowly getting back to where i started with drifting. but there is always room for driver improvement. Now things that you might do to your car should be more to accent your driving style. I am personally reallyearly into the throttle to get the turbo going, which tends to lead me to oversteer out of a turn slightly. So upgrading the tires (which is the second biggest thing you can do) might benefit me, or upgrade the exhaust so i dont have as much lag and wont get on it so fast.

I also command a 87 with a street ported motor and a very very fair amount of suspension work. i like it and its fun but it is demanding to drive due to the manual steering and the stiff suspension.

So choose upgrades correctly for your driving style and what your doing. but never think that upgrading the car will make YOU a better driver

Valkyrie

Upgrading your seat and controls can literally make you a better driver... well, in the sense that you're able to control the car rather than getting thrown across it's interior.

4WDrift

iTrader: (3)

agree with you, it wont cause you to loose focus, but then again i never had a problem with that for some reason in my Seven, rally i do get tossed around a bit more but that alot diffrent than drifting, due to extreme elevation changes and surface diffrences

DriftRX7

I'm sure nobody will disagree that driver is the key element on the car, but since this is CAR technic forum, let's focus on the car, not the driver. Ofcourse you have two choices when you have car not that capable for drifting, to get used to it or to make it better for the sports. I chose that second one.

Ranzo

Yeah back to the original post a little bit. To make your NA drift better, I would do whatever you can to increase the power. TB mods, fuel mods..run 87 octane.. whatever you can do to NA without breaking the bank. Then I would get some good suspension I would stiffen the chassis. I did seam weld on mine...world of difference, it did however make it understeer a little. Get a roll cage, safety and chassis stiffening all in one. Also get upgraded motor mounts and Trans, diff mounts. The tranny mounts make a huge difference because the power goes to the tires instantly making it easier to break traction, or not to depending.

Get tires that will allow you to slide out predictably. No huge sidewalls. I would say that will cover you for a while.