newbie to racing
10-22-07, 07:31 PM
#1
FC Racer
Thread Starter
newbie to racing
Hi everyone, I don't post here much, usually just read. Got a few questions and would like some advice or opinions.
I just registered for my local SCCA driver instruction which in turn will get me my novice license recognized by most sanctioning bodies. I'm pretty excited about this. Locally, we have some ice racing and some hill climbs, as well as some club racing. I'd like to eventually be able to enter some of these, mostly for fun, I don't plan on becoming pro or anything here. I am planning on building my own car, hopefully almost all of it myself. I have experience building cars, and engines, and can;t wait to learn all the stuff I don't know. Half the fun for me is the building, fabrication, modification etc.
Onto the questions.
I am planning on building an FC racecar. What sort of race series are available to the FC and what are the basic requirements or differences in req. specs for each one? Such as 'requires 15" wheels" or "no modifications to the engine" etc. I don't want something totally production as I want to be able to tinker with the car lots.
A big part of the car will be just being used on a track day, and for that, I dont need any specific mods, just want to get seat time, but I want to head down the right path from the get-go. Anything I should read, or watch out for? I know the ice racing and hill climbs aren't terribly picky about a lot of these things, but the club racing definitely is.
Also, should I try to get my senior license as soon as I can as well? What sort of benefits does such have?
Thanks...
I just registered for my local SCCA driver instruction which in turn will get me my novice license recognized by most sanctioning bodies. I'm pretty excited about this. Locally, we have some ice racing and some hill climbs, as well as some club racing. I'd like to eventually be able to enter some of these, mostly for fun, I don't plan on becoming pro or anything here. I am planning on building my own car, hopefully almost all of it myself. I have experience building cars, and engines, and can;t wait to learn all the stuff I don't know. Half the fun for me is the building, fabrication, modification etc.
Onto the questions.
I am planning on building an FC racecar. What sort of race series are available to the FC and what are the basic requirements or differences in req. specs for each one? Such as 'requires 15" wheels" or "no modifications to the engine" etc. I don't want something totally production as I want to be able to tinker with the car lots.
A big part of the car will be just being used on a track day, and for that, I dont need any specific mods, just want to get seat time, but I want to head down the right path from the get-go. Anything I should read, or watch out for? I know the ice racing and hill climbs aren't terribly picky about a lot of these things, but the club racing definitely is.
Also, should I try to get my senior license as soon as I can as well? What sort of benefits does such have?
Thanks...
10-22-07, 10:22 PM
#2
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Usually they run ITS and EP, both rule sets are in the rule book available for download from the SCCA site, aditionally locally there's some FC's running in ICSCC RS class, which is sort of a halfway point. Definetely read the rules, then repeat many times. Remember also, IIDSYCYC (If It Doesn't Say You Can You Can't).
ICSCC is basically the local sanctionning body for BC and Washington (also in Oregon), as the nearest SCCA region and racing is Portland.
ICSCC is basically the local sanctionning body for BC and Washington (also in Oregon), as the nearest SCCA region and racing is Portland.
10-30-07, 05:27 PM
#6
I have a friend who is dating Meredith Haupt who runs in the EP division (and I live in the Clark family land 
). It is more expensive than the IT division. Meredith doesn't have a huge budget so she just can't be as competitive as she would like. If that's going to be an issue, I would suggest ITS but there is no National in that division.
If you look at the RX7's in EP, Thrash is several seconds faster than the next closest RX7. If you don't have a big budget, those upper spots are going to be out of reach. EP is tough so just be prepared.
). It is more expensive than the IT division. Meredith doesn't have a huge budget so she just can't be as competitive as she would like. If that's going to be an issue, I would suggest ITS but there is no National in that division.If you look at the RX7's in EP, Thrash is several seconds faster than the next closest RX7. If you don't have a big budget, those upper spots are going to be out of reach. EP is tough so just be prepared.
10-30-07, 05:43 PM
#7
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You can easily spend $35k + developing and testing an ITS. For an EP car, I don't have first hand experience but do hear of guys spending $70K+. It's 100% guaranteed you are going to spend a lot more than you ever thought possible, alot of people don't ever even add it up because it hurts that bad.
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10-30-07, 08:23 PM
#8
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It'll be several years before I actually get out racing, for the next few years I'll be working on develloping the driver and building up the car, getting a truck and trailer and so on. I have no expectations that it'll be cheap or that I'll be competetive at first. I'll start out with a fairly minimal prep car and work on making it faster bit by bit from there and I doubt I'll venture past regional racing. I crew for a GT3 BMW run by a family friend, so I can see how expensive it can be, but I just like the EP rules better than ITS, there's more room for devellopment and that appeals to the engineer in me.
I'll probably be PM'ing you in a few years, as those are nice light panels, and as a larger guy I'll need all the help I can get getting the car down to weight.
I'll probably be PM'ing you in a few years, as those are nice light panels, and as a larger guy I'll need all the help I can get getting the car down to weight.
10-30-07, 09:37 PM
#9
10-30-07, 11:35 PM
#10
I have a friend who is dating Meredith Haupt who runs in the EP division (and I live in the Clark family land ). It is more expensive than the IT division. Meredith doesn't have a huge budget so she just can't be as competitive as she would like. If that's going to be an issue, I would suggest ITS but there is no National in that division.
If you look at the RX7's in EP, Thrash is several seconds faster than the next closest RX7. If you don't have a big budget, those upper spots are going to be out of reach. EP is tough so just be prepared.
). It is more expensive than the IT division. Meredith doesn't have a huge budget so she just can't be as competitive as she would like. If that's going to be an issue, I would suggest ITS but there is no National in that division.If you look at the RX7's in EP, Thrash is several seconds faster than the next closest RX7. If you don't have a big budget, those upper spots are going to be out of reach. EP is tough so just be prepared.
A first Gen EP RX7 that is competitive in MIDIV and firmly mid pack at the runoffs is a $15-20K deal depending on who you buy your engine from and the transmission you decide to run. At the low end you can do very well with a $4K street port motor with carbon seals and a 1.8 Miata box. At the higher end are the 12A/13B cermic seal engines that run Jericho transmissions. Interestingly enough I have seen both combinations run up front at MIDIV races. Driving talent - and Meredith has it in spades - has allot to do with it.
We don't have any FC's in EP around here so I cannot comment on what they cost - probably more because of the complexity of the rear suspension.
Now if you want to spend allot of money think Miata, Datsun Z car or Honda anything and you are on track....for the poor house.
10-31-07, 01:09 PM
#11
FC Racer
Thread Starter
EP appeals to me too, as I want to be able to be a bit more creative with the development. I'm interested in the building of the car just as much as driving it. I don't actually care about scoring high in the races at this point, being able to compete is good enough for me. Budget isn't a huge issue either, I won't waste money, but I won't cheap out either.
How much would an EP FC go for on the market out of curiosity?
With an EP prepared car, how would this work for time attack type races, or hill climbs?
How much would an EP FC go for on the market out of curiosity?
With an EP prepared car, how would this work for time attack type races, or hill climbs?
10-31-07, 02:12 PM
#12
Here's a good reference:
http://www.racer-net.com/sccapde.htm
http://www.racer-net.com/sccapde.htm
10-31-07, 02:14 PM
#13
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Here's another option.... forget about IT or Prod rules and just go build the car the way you want to build it. Do the mods you want and then it's classed based on those mods.
- http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/P...ring-Rules.pdf
Aren't a fan of NASA? Read this...
"Robert Davis, Mazda senior vice president and head of the company's racing program, said his company is "trying to spread our support more evenly among the SCCA and [the National Auto Sport Association]. SCCA is better known, but I would say right now NASA is better run."
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...5003/1531/FREE
- http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/P...ring-Rules.pdf
Aren't a fan of NASA? Read this...
"Robert Davis, Mazda senior vice president and head of the company's racing program, said his company is "trying to spread our support more evenly among the SCCA and [the National Auto Sport Association]. SCCA is better known, but I would say right now NASA is better run."
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...5003/1531/FREE
10-31-07, 02:23 PM
#14
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Here's a good reference:
http://www.racer-net.com/sccapde.htm
http://www.racer-net.com/sccapde.htm
10-31-07, 03:27 PM
#15
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It must be nice to have choices. For us I think the nearest NASA region is NorCal, not exactly close, that's long day's tow. The sanctionning body around here is ICSCC (International Conference of Sports Car Clubs), they run at Mission in BC, Spokane and Seattle in WA, and Portland in OR.
10-31-07, 05:34 PM
#16
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Here's a good reference:
http://www.racer-net.com/sccapde.htm
http://www.racer-net.com/sccapde.htm
Recently I bought a car from the west coast for a little north of $10k. Something to keep me entertained while I finish a build from scratch project. Figure 10-15k for a decent starter 1st gen.
10-31-07, 07:14 PM
#18
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You got to get this mystery EP car finished Paul, I look forward to seeing it one day and maybe racing against it. Bring the other one out to NASA if you are itching for some track time, I was racing against an ex-EP 1st gen this past weekend with NASA which was alot fun even though he beat me all 3 races, fortunately not by much!
10-31-07, 09:06 PM
#19
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Mark (SCCAITS) has one fine ITS car. Fast, and prepared well beyond basic IT cars. I'm sure development continues.....thank god for good jobs.
10-31-07, 11:57 PM
#20
FC Racer
Thread Starter
I wasn't too sure about what the rules said about the body modifications in EP.
Are spoilers of any sort allowed? Diffusers, underbody aero? What about bumpers, can they be modified? Can the exhaust exit placement be changed?
Thanks
Are spoilers of any sort allowed? Diffusers, underbody aero? What about bumpers, can they be modified? Can the exhaust exit placement be changed?
Thanks
11-01-07, 12:23 AM
#21
Lives on the Forum
No, no, no, yes, yes (IIRC). If you're really going to go racing, read the rule book about 10 times. There's lots of stuff that you can easily miss, as it depends on how you read the rule what exactly it means. There's lots of things that you can do that aren't immediately apparent.
11-01-07, 07:06 AM
#22
Go to scca.org and then in the club racing section go to cars and rules. You can download the General Competition Rulebook and the Production Car Specification section and it will give you what you can and cannot change. For your engine mods, either use a shop that knows the specs for the mods allowed or contact SCCA. They have specific allowances for streetporting the motor.
11-01-07, 07:37 PM
#24
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I know it's cheaper and all (I've given that advice to others), but I'd rather not have to go through the car to find and fix all the previous owners mistakes, and if I build it myself then it'll all be done the way I want. To me the build will be half the fun, not that I particularly enjoy being dirty and greasy on my back under the car, but it's nice to see one's hard work paying off by having the car go faster.
11-03-07, 10:38 PM
#25
keep in mind the SCCA class rules are designed in a car/driver/budget progressive way...
showroom new car=SS class (almost no parts mods,)
after 4 years old=ITS class (some susp/exhaust mods) DOT R compound tires
then EP class=(alot more mods, alot of custom stuff) slicks
then GT class=tube chassis
might want to start with IT and learn that, then progress the car to E Prod?
showroom new car=SS class (almost no parts mods,)
after 4 years old=ITS class (some susp/exhaust mods) DOT R compound tires
then EP class=(alot more mods, alot of custom stuff) slicks
then GT class=tube chassis
might want to start with IT and learn that, then progress the car to E Prod?