NA FD AutoX Classes
08-02-12, 07:50 PM
#1
NA FD AutoX Classes
Since the FD came us as a turbo what kind of class would i need to be in to run NA. Thoughts being car would be a gutted race car for track and autoX but be able to be driven on the street if desired. Engine choice being a 20b but was not sure whether that engine choice over a 13b would push me into another class? Any thoughts...
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09-02-12, 04:20 AM
#8
Sorry to have to burst your bubble, but this statement is false.
Yes, technically this is true. Every single 13BREW and 20B 1993 R1 RX-7 that has won SSM every year (except the one year it was won by another make/model/year car) since the class's inception have all been misclassed because the rules state the engine block must be by the same manufacturer and rotary engine cars do not have blocks and are therefore ineligible.
Maybe cone_crushr can explain himself more completely so his statement makes sense to me, but till then I have to chuckle.
1. Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and badged
the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model.
Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the manufacturer
will be recognized as equivalents. Swaps involving makes related
only at a corporate level are not recognized as equivalents. Models
produced as a joint venture between manufacturers may utilize
any engine from any partner in the joint venture, provided that an
engine from the desired manufacturer was a factory option in that
particular model (e.g. Eagle Talon available originally with either a
Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from Chrysler
or Mitsubishi). This allows engine blocks manufactured as production
units for sale in other countries such as Japan or Germany.
Yes, technically this is true. Every single 13BREW and 20B 1993 R1 RX-7 that has won SSM every year (except the one year it was won by another make/model/year car) since the class's inception have all been misclassed because the rules state the engine block must be by the same manufacturer and rotary engine cars do not have blocks and are therefore ineligible.
Maybe cone_crushr can explain himself more completely so his statement makes sense to me, but till then I have to chuckle.
1. Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and badged
the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model.
Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the manufacturer
will be recognized as equivalents. Swaps involving makes related
only at a corporate level are not recognized as equivalents. Models
produced as a joint venture between manufacturers may utilize
any engine from any partner in the joint venture, provided that an
engine from the desired manufacturer was a factory option in that
particular model (e.g. Eagle Talon available originally with either a
Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from Chrysler
or Mitsubishi). This allows engine blocks manufactured as production
units for sale in other countries such as Japan or Germany.
09-02-12, 04:30 AM
#9
Ah, I see the problem maybe.
1. Engine block must be a production unit manufactured [by] and badged
the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model.
Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the manufacturer
will be recognized as equivalents. Swaps involving makes related
only at a corporate level are not recognized as equivalents. Models
produced as a joint venture between manufacturers may utilize
any engine from any partner in the joint venture, provided that an
engine from the desired manufacturer was a factory option in that
particular model (e.g. Eagle Talon available originally with either a
Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from Chrysler
or Mitsubishi). This allows engine blocks manufactured as production
units for sale in other countries such as Japan or Germany.
They wrote it wrong by forgetting the [by] or they contradicted themselves saying (e.g. Eagle Talon available originally with either a
Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from Chrysler
or Mitsubishi)
There has probably already been a clarification on this rule, but obviously it should be re written so it doesn't contradict itself.
1. Engine block must be a production unit manufactured [by] and badged
the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model.
Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the manufacturer
will be recognized as equivalents. Swaps involving makes related
only at a corporate level are not recognized as equivalents. Models
produced as a joint venture between manufacturers may utilize
any engine from any partner in the joint venture, provided that an
engine from the desired manufacturer was a factory option in that
particular model (e.g. Eagle Talon available originally with either a
Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from Chrysler
or Mitsubishi). This allows engine blocks manufactured as production
units for sale in other countries such as Japan or Germany.
They wrote it wrong by forgetting the [by] or they contradicted themselves saying (e.g. Eagle Talon available originally with either a
Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from Chrysler
or Mitsubishi)
There has probably already been a clarification on this rule, but obviously it should be re written so it doesn't contradict itself.
09-02-12, 05:27 AM
#10
I'm not sure why you need to make such tortured interpretations of the rules (although it's good that you posted the rule for clarification).
It's really simple and in the first sentence: the RX7 (model) was never was produced (either standard or optionally) with a 20B.
It's really simple and in the first sentence: the RX7 (model) was never was produced (either standard or optionally) with a 20B.
09-03-12, 03:19 PM
#12
1. Engine block (20B) must be a production unit (yes, it was) manufactured and badged (manufactured by Mazda badged as Mazda)
the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model. (original 13BREW was also Manufactured by Mazda and badged as Mazda)
I do not see the tortured interpretation.
Edit-
I do understand now.
Engine block must be a production unit manufactured (the same) and badged
the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model.
Sure looks like you are correct. Ever since I started auto-x I thought of SMI and SMII (SM/SSM) as classes that allowed engine swaps as long as the engine was manufactured by the same as the chassis.
the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model. (original 13BREW was also Manufactured by Mazda and badged as Mazda)
I do not see the tortured interpretation.
Edit-
I do understand now.
Engine block must be a production unit manufactured (the same) and badged
the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model.
Sure looks like you are correct. Ever since I started auto-x I thought of SMI and SMII (SM/SSM) as classes that allowed engine swaps as long as the engine was manufactured by the same as the chassis.
09-03-12, 10:20 PM
#15
Anyhow fritts, I hope you now have an idea what you're getting into. Good luck with a autoX, track, and street car. It's certainly doable, but don't expect to win much in AutoX, although it really depends on the competitiveness of your region.
09-04-12, 11:50 AM
#16
You'd think so, but you'd be wrong. I've spoken with the 2nd place finisher who is a strong believer in the spirit of competition. His car isn't exactly spotless to the rules either. There is no "scrutineering" in SCCA. The rules are enforced by protest only. Strange but that's one way to avoid a bunch of enforcement police and the associated overhead.
Anyhow fritts, I hope you now have an idea what you're getting into. Good luck with a autoX, track, and street car. It's certainly doable, but don't expect to win much in AutoX, although it really depends on the competitiveness of your region.
Anyhow fritts, I hope you now have an idea what you're getting into. Good luck with a autoX, track, and street car. It's certainly doable, but don't expect to win much in AutoX, although it really depends on the competitiveness of your region.
Both the 13B-REW and the 20B-REW are badged "MAZDA" therefore it's a legal swap. just like 240 drivers running SR20s or K20s in civics...
now if you start swapping housings and irons around between engines it gets a bit more grey...
no one in solo would allow someone to be a multi-time national champion with an illegal engine swap.
09-04-12, 04:19 PM
#17
In fact, as proven in the above discussion, that is not what the rule states.
Perhaps you could argue that the wording of the rule does not accurately represent the intention of the rule makers. Do you know any members of the SCCA board to lend credence to this assumption?
09-04-12, 07:30 PM
#18
Apparently reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Unfortunately it's a problem shared by many racers who choose interpretations that favor their own situation.
In fact, as proven in the above discussion, that is not what the rule states.
Perhaps you could argue that the wording of the rule does not accurately represent the intention of the rule makers. Do you know any members of the SCCA board to lend credence to this assumption?
In fact, as proven in the above discussion, that is not what the rule states.
Perhaps you could argue that the wording of the rule does not accurately represent the intention of the rule makers. Do you know any members of the SCCA board to lend credence to this assumption?
the first sentence:
Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and badged
the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model.
Both the 13B and the 20B are "production units manufactured and badged" by Mazda. They are badged "MAZDA" and manufactured by Mazda.
please share your amazing reading comprehension skills with me.
09-04-12, 08:29 PM
#20
tard of teh century
"for that model" is just there as a lead in for the next sentances about brands having models of cars that have engines from multiple manufacturers. This way if there is one mitsubishi that has a chrysler engine you can't say that EVERY mitsubishi is allowed to use chrysler engines. Also I don't see why they would bother putting in the sentance about not allowing engines to be swapped among brands that share ties at a corporate level unless you are allowed to use any engine from your specific brand. If your car can only used the various allowed engines it came with, why would they need to put in a clause that narrows down the allowed engines that weren't in your model of car?
I do agree that the first sentance could be taken either way and it comes down to whether you believe they are referring solely the brand badging for the engine or the actual engine badge/code itself.
I do agree that the first sentance could be taken either way and it comes down to whether you believe they are referring solely the brand badging for the engine or the actual engine badge/code itself.
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