Crashunit

Anyone interested in a purchasing the most revolutionary complete brake kit you will ever find?

If anyone went to SEMA last year or seen some ads for the “Brake Man” Brake kit, I am sure it turned a lot of heads. It has a very unique design already have many people asking where and how this type of breaking system came about. As weird as it may look, it has been tested and proven to be the most advance, effective and most unique braking system on the market today. I have been in contact with Brake Man since last years SEMA, and have been asking them to design a kit for the FD, since I truly believe the breaking on the late model RX-7 is not adequate enough for its performance, and could use some work. Brake Man develops complete breaking kits including, calipers, master cylinders, steel braided lines and ect... (the works and nothing but the best materials and compound….) They have over 25 years of experience in making top quality braking systems, which is how they came up with these new extreme designs, that are not only lighter (about 4lbs per rotor, pending for race or street, and type), create less brake fade, and offer outstanding bite, and more technology then any other brake kit available to date. There kits, have been track proven to out perform many major top brand braking systems anywhere, have won many awards and praise for their technological advancements, and now the only question remains is if the RX-7 community is interested and ready to have the best braking kit available for practically 50% off their retail price! ( this applies to those who act now and preorder) Since, they do not yet have a kit available for the 93-up RX-7s, they want to see if there is a market for it first, and if there is, then they will offer this amazing price for those who are interested and want the best full breaking system money can buy. All I am asking in this thread for now is to voice your opinion on if FD owners, who either autocross, rally race, canyon race, or just want superior braking are interested, and I will work out a deal with them to get these kits made for our cars. Now I’m sure you want to know exactly why I find there brakes better then anything out on the market, so here’s a little info on it, and I suggest visiting their site to find out more, which is loaded with useful knowledge even if you are not interested in purchasing one, but want to lean more about brake systems:

http://www.thebrakeman.com

Crashunit

Now for some information and pictures of their unique their products: (if the pictures do not show up, just go to the site, or copy and paste the url)

This is what a basic brake kit will look like:



Now Im sure your wondering about their designs…..

First we have the:
The ConvO.E.M. Rotors


The unique wave design was adapted from the success of our racing rotors. Removal of material from the rotor reduces rotating weight, which is 4 times the weight when the rotor is not moving. This reduction in weight helps increase performance, as well. The ConvO.E.M. brake rotor is also a direct replacement for any OEM vehicle. It uses a convoluted diameter design and is whip slotted then clear zinc dipped for appearance and protection. These rotors are slotted, not cross-drilled, as this will cause a cast rotor to crack prematurely. ConvO.E.M. rotors are an easy way to dress up any size wheel package.

Secondly is the:
The Revolution Rotor


The purpose of this rotor is to reduce the rotating mass while still maintaining its flatness. This rotor has been highly successful in replacing many heavier cast iron rotors with no loss of braking performance, yet will tolerate much more thermal energy than a cast aluminum rotor. In addition to its ability to dissipate more thermal energy, it is less expensive than its cast aluminum or titanium counterpart. Since the coefficient of friction is so similar to cast iron, the driver feels minimal difference in the performance. The success of this revolutionary steel rotor provides a wide variety of applications where they wouldn’t work before. Also, the low cost aspects of this rotor create a much larger market, especially to racers on low budgets.

Next we have the:
The Hurricane Rotor


This rotor is "state of the art technology" and extremely unique. It has been patented to protect this technology. The unique interior design dissipates heat three times faster than any rotor yet tested. Manufactured from laminated steel plates, it is extremely strong, and will not shatter as cast iron under extreme use, and will result in operating temperatures at 30-40% lower than a comparable cast iron rotor. This rotor has been designed for extreme use, such as on heavy cars, or for very long races. It is on the high end of the price scale, but will work well when nothing else will. We are still developing new and unique designs that incorporate excellent cooling with long life and lighter weight. You will be seeing and hearing much more about this rotor in the near future.

Now for some Caliper Information:

Tornado Series Calipers


Our Tornado Series calipers represent the most advanced design available today. Since the calipers are made from forged billet material, their rigidity and repeatability, especially at higher temperatures and harder use, cannot be matched. While they are more expensive than other calipers available, their superior performance will mean improved pad life, more trouble free performance, and far longer life for the caliper itself. Since these calipers are modular in design, they can be modified easily if you change rotor thickness, or if you need to increase or decrease brake torque. Also, since they can be used as a left side or right side caliper by simply changing the location of the inlet fitting and bleeder, you only need one spare instead of two. For any of you that wish, the calipers may be returned to us for a full factory rebuild at any time. The charge for this service is $10.00 (amazing!)

Crashunit

Choosing which brake kit set up for you, all depends on what you want to do with your car, and Break Man can also help you determine, what is best for you as well. I am merely bring this up to the community, since I really want to see these kits made for our cars, and if we can show them there is some serious interest in it, I am sure they will develop them, and give the first few people to purchase them great offers to test them out. Believe me, you will not be disappointed. So enough of my rambling and check out their site, and voice your opinions and interest here or email me at Trunksss4@earthlink.net or Brake Man direct for more information at brakeman@hotmail.com . Also when emailing Brake Man, reference it to Warren Gilliland and mention Marvin Leckuthai brought it to your attention (so he knows its for the FD), and we can all get a group buy or discount going for it. Once the interest is there, pricing can be arranged and I will give further information as to what developments will fallow. Let them or myself know what you would want in a brake kit and what you do not like as well, so they can design the best possible kit for our cars. Hope to get a lot of replies and input so we can get the ball rolling.

Thanks,

Marvin leckuthai
Trunksss4@earthlink.net
Or
Warren Gilliland
http://www.thebrakeman.com

tims

nothing really revolutionary about the "wave" rotors, except they are becoming very popular with the street "racer" crowd. these have been around for a while now. As for brake man calipers and pads they are just modified Airheart/JFZ/Wilwood/Sierra/Outlaw designs, again nothing new or revolutionary. good luck with the kit for the 3rd gen RX7.

Node

iTrader: (1)

You don't think FD's have good enough brakes? From what I've seen people think they have great brakes except for high speed tracks
I've seen wave rotors on bikes (motorcycles), and I've never seen anything wrong with them, but most sportbikes weigh under 600llbs with rider.
Although I've seen a picture of wave rotors for an auto application (probably pictures of this very companys rotors).
Oh well, people go with bigger rotors because they want more metal to dissipate the heat, I don't see what taking less meat from the rotor would do for performance other than less weight.

Oh well, I guess I'll wait for a couple responses before I make any opinions

redrotorR1

My thoughts exactly. Why would you sacrifice surface area to try and maximize heat dissipation? That doesn't make any logical sense. Unless this is different rotor material, which it doesn't sound like it is. I can understand the weight savings ... but at the expense of earlier brake fade? I dunno .... I'm not convinced. Crashunit, I know you're just trying to probe the populus to see if there's an interest, but something doesn't smell right here. Do they have some technical data to support their superior braking performance claims?

And as far as the stock FD brakes go, I think they kick *** ... stock. Those Sumitomo calipers bite hard and, when combined with a good pad, give well-above-the-mark braking performance. If brake fade is your concern, there's really only 2 routes to go: (1) more surface area (bigger rotors and/or slotting/cross-drilling) or (2) different material with higher heat of absorption (ceramic composites). FWIW, auto-xers aren't usually too worried about brake fade and brake upgrades kick you into Prepared and SM2 classes ... in other words, probably not a avid market for this stuff. Good luck.

stockrx7

these thin wavy rotors are for rice boys... as thin as they are, they will warp in a couple lap on thunderhill.

DamonB

(3) Don't forget added cooling air to the brakes with better ducts.

Those rotors look neat but loosing rotor mass doesn't seem the way to go. It smells too much like "We've invented this technology and all our stuff is therefore better". I think they are different, not better.

Crashunit

As in response from Warren Gilliland
of Break Man to your comments thru my email:

Nw designs always get critized no matter what, when they are first released, and generally people with little knowladge are the first with negitive commets. Then after a few years of use and the more people start to understand these products, they tend to shut up and start to see the light. So Plz check out the site or email Warren before making comments or generalizations without proper information to back it up.

BTW, I wrote this in a rush before I went to work this morning and did not noticed I mispelled and use the wrong wording for "Break" with "Brake." My apologies Warren.

Crashunit

Sorry I have Im Dyslesic I just changed it above...... its "BRAKEMAN" and I keep spelling Brake with Break... Im not having a good day at all.... I just got deleted from no pistons too, thanks Vosko

redrotorR1

Ok ...

Granted it doesn't say that it was directly does one to achieve the other. But it does advertise that it achieves both ... reducing mass and increasing thermal dissipation. And not to say that you couldn't do both, but with another metal alloy? Like you say, at first there will be skeptics. So, I'm curious ... what kind of steel? chromium steel, nickel steel, chromium-nickel steel, aluminum steel?

Chronos

I wanna see what some of the brake experts have to say about this...max? jimlab? sleepr1?

jumprdude

I posted a reply to a thread discussing the exact same topic as this in the 3rd gen forum.

[on edit:]
My reply contained links to the S2k forum and CC.com forum where they have gone through pages of discussions hashing this out, since we are headed in that direction it makes sense to get everyone up to speed and on the same page.

SleepR1

Shouldn't the thread title read "Braking" rather than "Breaking". They're two different words.

Sort of like the difference between, "they're", "there", and "their"??

PPC-Racing

sleep, as he's pointed out a few times now, he and others here are Dyslesic. The example you point out is not the same thing. A good example would be; Angel or Angle & Does or Dose.. IF you feel that strongly change the header.

edit: on topic, I think allot of the questioning and negative reaction is based on the fact that allot of the ricers have picked up on the product and the perceived image of the product has been reduced by this fact.. I would say , based on experience in this area from designing and building kits myself, even if the rotors were using a simple ISO/ TUV certified sttel it would be miles beyond 90% of the rotors produced by north american suppliers, polwer slot, power stop, KVR, AEM.. all of them use the exact same blamks coming out of china, non certified and no composition sheet shipped with any of the blanks.
I have two questions that would be very simple to answer one, I'd like to see the spec sheet on the rotor composition and the numbers of the caliper efficiency, that's it.. otherwise i have no probelm with the product at all.. except that maybe too may rice boys use em.

Silkworm

Ok, here's my problem.

You post an advertisement, which is what this is, in this forum. You know nothing about the unit, then you flame people for being a doubter.

1. show me the money! You want to stop the doubters? Setup a kit on your car, do some real world numbers on stopping distances, both street and on the track, and maybe, just maybe someone will take you seriously. You say there's a kit for the FD. What size rotors are they? What caliper?

2. Of course a Steel rotor will have better thermal energy absorbtion than a cast aluminum rotor, aside from motorcycles (not even sure if they do, but if anyone does, they do), I can't think of one single brake application that i"ve ever seen aluminum rotors used on. Certainly not on automotive applications. How about compare thermal energy absorbtion between a standard cast iron rotor vs this wave design.

4. This is the race car forum, not the show and go forum, so why bother with the floofy ****, let's look at the hurricane setup, since that's the only setup anyone here should even be looking at. I have a question. WHo here has seen a rotor shatter? I haven't, I've been at the race track for 3 years watching club racers. I've seen cracks, I've seen scoring, but I've never seen nor heard of a shattered rotor.

Leaving that aside, I have a few questions for you, Crash.
1. Based on the picture you showed, is thermal expansion going to lead to cracking at the rotor/hat junction? Most race brake applications go to separate hats/rotors to allow the rotor to expand at a different rate than the hat, since the rotors get to so much higher temperatures than the wheel hub/hat area does. Differences in temperature, with no ability to expand/contract independant of each surface, will eventually lead to cracking from what I have been told.
2. speaking of the hat, why not an aluminum hat?
3. How much and what sizes?

But my final question to you CrashUnit,

Give me real world reasons why you feel the brakes on the FD are inadequate for normal street driving.

I'm not a doubter. I went to his website, and he's got some solid reasons why he does things, but for all this talk about wave rotors being race bred, the one rotor he lists as suitable for racing is perfectly round.

PaulC

Chronos

On the S2k forum the guy who makes the kit for the the S2ks states that the brakes are perfectly "capable" for street driving, WOW, that sounds like a GREAT upgrade! perfectly CAPABLE!
and in regards to racing: only suitable for a) drag racing b) autoX c) oval racing - furthermore they'll only use them (and test) on the rears

so, in other words...as long as you're not gonna be using the brakes much, THEY'RE AWESOME!!!

Crashunit, maybe you should try soliciting these brakes on the honda forums and not waste our time with rice designs. No offence to you personally, but these things are a joke.

P.S. Doesn't cast iron dissipate heat better than steel???

rpv

originally offroad motorcycles ( trials, mx, enduro) went to the wave rotor was to help dirt mud etc, escape and keep the pads, piston clean i've never really noticed any benifit with them. just looks cool. but looks ain't everyting.....
just look at what the big sports car race teams use
my .02 worth
robert

tims

so you aren't the first to use wave rotors just the first to use them on street cars. I thought this was the racing section of the RX7 forum.

I am not sure if it is revolutionary more like evolutionary.

Regenerated was a bad choice of words sorry.

I do not doubt the technical abilities of the people involved with Brakeman products and all the companies listed above. I have since forgot who worked for who in the good old days and I have always believed everyones future designs and products were evolutions of the first Airheart products and research. all have proven them selves in all types of braking applications, racing included. my only complaint is that all of this stuff is not revolutionary. it is very standard stuff. the only revolutionary thing is that some of the old line companies are now catering to the import crowd instead of concentrating on domestic drag racing and stock cars. hats off for developing a brake kit for the FD, but there are FD and RX7 enthusiasts who have been doing this on a small scale for years. and lastly this area is supposed to be for racing not street product advertising. I could let some of this go if it was being developed for some grassroots racing project, but it is just a cool looking street kit for the car show group. sorry for the rant. product is good but not a revolution in braking technology.

Chronos

Evolutionary in the Darwin sense? If so, I'd have to agree with that if they were used in real racing.

I do, regarding the application that they're being advertised in here.


What exactly did Airheart develop that was so revolutionary? Fill us in...

The import crowd??? I take it that you mean the only purpose of this brake kit is to show off and lessen performance thereby increasing one's str333t pr0w3ss...is that the "import tuning" you're referring to? Those of us who actually are concerned with upgraded performance would fall under the GT category, which, isn't exactly something new.

Actually there's been performance products available since the FD first came out on a large scale...just not in the US.

here here!

It's a rediculous and ugly looking str33t kit and it is being developed for the "car show" group.

Product is NOT good and it WILL be an evolutionary product if it actually does hit the track in a race prepared FD.

MechE00

Why is it that quack designs always claim this? :p~

The above statement was primarily meant to be humor, not a comment on the quality of the product. Despite the fact that I think I see webbed footprints around here, I am not interested enough to investigate enough to make any comments on that.

Anyway, kudos on acknowledging your own spelling errors.. it helps mitigate their effect on your credibility a little.

Ni5mo180SX

Agreed.

We should have this thread moved/deleted.

Ni5mo180SX

double post

fdracer

what a ****** letdown. the heading says "the best braking system money can buy for a fraction of the cost". i though we were gonna get some insane14" carbon-carbon brakes, instead we get this ricer ****. what next, you gonna selling "the best turbos money can buy" then end up selling stock fd turbos?

Gene

iTrader: (1)

We used the brakeman revolution rotors on our FSAE car my senior year of college. They worked pretty well with our wilwood calipers and dangerous looking "for off road use only" asbestos brake pads. The thing weighed 500lbs sans driver and gasoline tho, and was used for autox.

That last rotor looks like it has some promise, it looks like there is a HUGE amount of surface area inside it because of the stacked discs design, I bet it moves a decent amount of cooling air...