Fatman0203

5 Million$ insurance policy?

Wankel7

If you think you have learned everything you can from your car. Let the fastest person at your local autox drive it. Normally that takes care of that notion.

James

bond007

If you can't afford the fees, yup, you don't belong on the track. If you can't afford to drive it off a cliff, it doesn't belong on track. There is insurance you can buy, but it costs as much as the collision policy on your car and has a high deductible. You can't get that for autocross and it is competition, so I doubt the insurance company will buy that (same for time trial) -- I only state these to just say it, the insurance debate is a nasty pandora's box I hate discussing because it is ugly and undefined and hard to get definitive answers for.

That said, you can hit immovable objects at autocrosses, you can run off the tarmac into a ditch or into trees, and you can hit another car. I have been doing track events for 4-5 years, I've seen only ONE car roll and he was being a total moron. I've seen many people impact walls and that was the worst thing about their weekend...

Autocrossing is about competition and not setup as car control (but you pick it up along the way). I wish it was exclusively car control, because that is the valuable part that applies to street driving.

Track days (less a time trial) involves zero competition. The HUGE point is that they are two completely different things, yet similar. The "hardcore" groups of each don't really like the other activity. I have done both and I don't autocross because I'm not getting younger and I prefer seat time over the competition because that's how _I_ measure the worth of an event. It _IS_ different for everyone, do what you want to do, life is too short to quibble and grumble that you only got 4 minutes of seat time. They are both hard on cars, I think in some ways, autocross is harder on the car than track, and vice-versa. Track is more expensive, but I find the return more appealing to ME (may not be in your case).

I feel safer at track days for several reasons:
Ambulance standing by with helicopter to airlift you
Corner workers that are paid to watch out for you and trained to come to your rescue (by and large, not all situations)
People are less close to the racing surface, less risk of hitting a person (too many idiots I've seen at autocrosses with their back to the course <sigh>)
Depending on the track, less immoveable objects to hit
You aren't at the discretion of the course designer du jour who may not know what they are doing and setup a "dangerous" course (uhm, one place I ran, we were accelerating toward fuel tanks...and the organization running the event is very competent and that was as good as it got for that arena)

That's the tip of the iceberg. This whole thread is highly opinionated. It's how you look at the facts as to which you enjoy (as well as the size of your bank account). Autocross can be every bit as expensive as track days depending on how hard you run the car and how competitive you are.

Summary:
To each his own. Do what YOU want to do at the level you can afford to. If you aren't having fun, you need to do something about it.

Travis R

That's correct. But if it makes you feel any better that is the high end. I think most times it's around $1-$2 Million.

Fatman0203

Whats the minimum requried by SCCA? Cause thats what they have at nearly every event.

RussinStk

That said, you can hit immovable objects at autocrosses, you can run off the tarmac into a ditch or into trees, and you can hit another car. I have been doing track events for 4-5 years, I've seen only ONE car roll and he was being a total moron. I've seen many people impact walls and that was the worst thing about their weekend... [/QUOTE]

SCCA has specific regulations about distance and course set up from immovable objects. You are at fall less risk hitting an immovable object auto-xing than a wall at a track. A review of any tracks safety stats compared to the SCCA national SoloII program will indicate that.

Autocrossing is about competition and not setup as car control (but you pick it up along the way). I wish it was exclusively car control, because that is the valuable part that applies to street driving.

Auto-x is a sigificantly closer skill set to daily driving then tracking. You typically never exceed freeway speeds. A majority auto-xers use cars which they run on the street using street tires. In auto-x it is very difficult to make corrections in driving style to make up for poor setups due to you are only running a lap at a time for usually less than 60 sec. You do not have the distances on a track to make up for any minor driving errors. When was the last time a road race was loss by 100ths of a sec? Auto-x is all about car set up and car control.


I feel safer at track days for several reasons:
Ambulance standing by with helicopter to airlift you
Corner workers that are paid to watch out for you and trained to come to your rescue (by and large, not all situations)
People are less close to the racing surface, less risk of hitting a person (too many idiots I've seen at autocrosses with their back to the course <sigh>)
Depending on the track, less immoveable objects to hit
You aren't at the discretion of the course designer du jour who may not know what they are doing and setup a "dangerous" course (uhm, one place I ran, we were accelerating toward fuel tanks...and the organization running the event is very competent and that was as good as it got for that arena)

No driver is at the discretion of the course designer. Every driver has the option of discussing "concerns" with the event chairperson and safety steward. If you were really concerned about the fuel tanks, then why did you run? You were willing to risk your life or damage to your car for an auto-x? It doesn't make sense.

I sorry, you are painting a very inaccurate picture of auto-x. I do not think Auto-x is better or worse than track. They are different animals. I have done and enjoy both. Tracking and auto-x require different skill sets, which are rewarding in their own way.


Russ
New Competitor Coordinator
SCCA - SFR - Sacramento Chapter SoloII Program
SM #3 BMW E30-M3
Looking for a 2nd Gen, RX-7 turbo
to create a ASP or BP Vette killer.

bond007

I said they were different (although similar) and you should do what you want. As much as I tried to not "bash" autocross, I had a feeling that someone would imply that.

Personally, it doesn't float my boat anymore. Yeah, I see pictures of cars in the maze of cones and part of me wants to go run them, but my life is too busy to spend a weekend on it.

Do what you want to do. The original topic was "how do you enjoy autocross". Man, if you don't enjoy it, go do something else. Life is too short!

SCCA Regs may be obeyed at SCCA autocrosses, but the local clubs don't always follow them to the letter. Pardon my lack of memory, but at a national tour event, I think that is what it was, I know of a friend who ended up hitting an object (a trailer or something like that) that was supposed to be "way far off course". Well, one car hit it. They didn't change the course. Then the 2nd car hit it. They then changed it. What about the two S2000's that collided several months ago?

Incidents DO happen despite "good" planning. Relative risk of track vs. autocross? Those numbers are really hard to find. I haven't really seen any numbers ... just the endorphine-induced rationalization that we ALL use to rationalize our hobby as "sane".

I think that both sides will argue until the end of time about each activity being superior to the other and again, I'm not trying to put down autocross, but don't let the chemicals in your brain dilute you...ANY FORM OF MOTORSPORTS IS DANGEROUS.

So is staying at home (where most accidents happen)!

They both apply and they both don't apply in some aspects. Speeds are similar but the percentage of grip you are using is not, at least I hope that you aren't using that much grip when you normally drive on the street.

You certainly aren't driving around the street trying to click off quick times between designated points? Competition makes you do things you normally wouldn't. Car control is what you learn and being able to calmly handle an out of control vehicle along with vision is what applies to the street.

And the difference between that and track is?
The competition and the pace of the turns...

You still set your car up for the track and you still have car control and you have an instructor with you where a good number of autocross clubs do not allow passengers to critique your driving as you go and provide feedback (which is what can make learning how to autocross what seems to be an insurmountable goal, which I experienced, and when I found a venue where I could have a passenger, it made it easier to understand what I was doing wrong).

Road races are lost by split seconds, maybe not 100th's of a second, but if you look at the total competition time compared to the time difference between places, it would be comparable. And we aren't comparing road race...that's yet another Pandora's box

The organization I ran with the fuel tank issue is the best one in the state and it was the first time on that site. I haven't run with them since last year, but IIRC, they made some changes. That autocross was not a points autocross, just to figure out the site and was only for experienced members (probably a bad thing in some aspects). They explained and warned and discussed the "caveats" to the site and I always felt in good hands with their superior organizational skills and collective experience. Other clubs in my state aren't anywhere as good about explaining that unless you are trailering your car, there is a possibility you can ding it up and you should exercise caution and it isn't worth it to risk damage to your car over a plastic trophy.

Fatman0203

Here are the times btw. Not tooo shabby for my for time and 20psi in the tires. http://autox.carlc.com/er072504.htm

adam c

iTrader: (2)

94 Javier Aparicio Mazda RX7 67.807 o/c 64.117 o/c DNS DNW 0

Last place. Didn't make your last run. Did not work. 0pts.
Last place doesn't matter. However, 10 seconds is a long way back from the leader. You screwed up and didn't get a third run. DNS means did not start. Then you didn't do your part to help out by working (DNW). In order to run these events, people must work the course. Those who don't work are not welcomed back in many clubs. If you didn't work, that is very irresponsible.

Fatman0203

Well the DNW was sorta a small emergency I had, thats why I got a DNS. I personally didnt care about last place either, I was comparing myself more toward the other classes and my friends who were all around the same numbers as II (66 being the highest and 62 the lowest). Also I was running a measly 20 psi on the tires with no tach =p. I know excuses are no good but man, I need a tach at least! =P

Umrswimr

I could not agree more...

You have a LOT to learn about autocross if those are the results you posted. You got last- and by a LONG shot- yet you don't believe there's any more that you can learn?

You didn't complete your worker assignment? That's just plain unacceptable. If you had an emergency, you should have notified the man in charge of worker assignments and explained it to him. They will usually understand. As it was, you just bailed on your assignment and left them shorthanded. That was poor, poor judgement.

As for the lack of a tach- that's irrelevant. You should NEVER have the time, nor the reason, to look down at your tach. If you don't know how many RPM's your car is turning without looking- well, that's another thing you can learn.

Stop making excuses for your performance and use it as a learning experience for next time. You can only go up from there!

Fatman0203

Ok let me clear my previous statement. I personally didnt think theres a WHOLE LOT to learn, I just need to begin to practice more. BTW This was with 20psi of air thats easily sometime off. Anyways I plan to continue to practice so relax, and dont get scared when you see my time creeping up on your z06s . (ya right!)

PureSephiroth

i think my sig says it all...

Fatman0203

I like it. Its true.